Author Topic: Help!! Fighting...I'm scared....!!  (Read 3323 times)

Offline shine

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Help!! Fighting...I'm scared....!!
« on: October 08, 2007, 12:51:09 pm »
This is probably going to be looong, I really need advice...

A few weeks ago I posted that Bodhi and Ribbit have had a couple little fights over food...once over Bodhi's bowl and once when we were putting groceries away and all the dogs were crowded around.  I called a trainer...they gave me some suggestions but have only been here once because they have classes and have been out of town.  I've been working on the suggestions they offered and things have been going well....until last night.

Bodhi had just finished his dinner but was still standing at his bowl in the kitchen (Explanation: all the other dogs eat in the basement once a day...Bodhi's bowl is in the kitchen and he eats twice a day).  I was standing behind Bodhi keeping an eye that no one got too close.  Ribbit came into the kitchen and stood behind me.  Bodhi turned around and looked at him, and I knew almost immediately that trouble was brewing...he stiffened up and got that intense stare.  I grabbed his color and tried to tell him to Leave It...but they went at each other.  They only got to each other for about 10 seconds, then I managed to drag Bodhi out into the foyer.  I put him into a Sit/Stay, but did not let go of him because he was still very tense like he wanted to lunge again.  Then he started growling again and I looked and Ribbit was coming into the foyer...and Bodhi tried to go after him again.  I could not get Ribbit to leave the foyer...I finally drug Bodhi up to the landing of the stairs where we have a gate, and locked him in there...then ran and put Ribbit in the basement as fast as I could (because the gate will not hold Bodhi for long).  By the time I shut the basement door, Bodhi was over the gate and running toward us.  As soon as he realized Ribbit was in the basement and no longer a "threat", he calmed down.  I, on the other hand, was just about hysterical.  I couldn't believe the "fight" lasted so long...that Ribbit just kept advancing and Bodhi just kept trying to get him.  I was all by myself when this happened...it's damn hard to hold back a 130 lb. dog and I have 3 herniated discs in my back which does not help...I had hideous visions of Ribbit getting killed or having to get rid of Bodhi...so I called the trainers in a panic.  They kept telling me that "the situation is not as horrible as it seems" and "is VERY solvable if we do the work in training".  They offered more advice...here is some of it, along with some things I have been thinking.  Please tell me if it makes sense, or if any of you have had problems like this and what you've done about it:

1. I think feeding Bodhi in the kitchen is a dumb move on my part.  As I said, the other dogs eat downstairs in their kennels....so when Bodhi eats his first meal of the day no other dog is around.  I suspect he thinks of the entire kitchen as his feeding area to guard...so when he eats his second meal and there are other dogs around, he gets pissy.  The trainers said we should feed him in the basement with the others so he can see that they have the 'right' to eat too...I don't want him loose, so we will have to see if our large crate is big enough for him or possibly switch the kennel assignment for eating (which could be a nightmare because we have had the same routine for years).

2.  The trainers absolutely feel that the problem is not just Bodhi.  When I told them that Ribbit kept coming into the foyer when I dragged Bodhi in there, they said that was him being aggressive. He didn't act aggressive (no growling or trying to attack Bodhi), but it does kind of make sense...a Cocker Spaniel has just been jumped by a Newfoundland and doesn't run away??  Ribbit has always had aggression issues (I think a big part of it is because he is a Cocker mix....in my experience, they are very testy)...he often growls at the other dogs and even us...but we've always put up with it because until Bodhi got big no one ever challenged him.  Another dumb move on our part.  So the trainers think we need to work with Ribbit as well.

3.  The trainers suggested that I wear a small air horn around my neck for the next few weeks in case anything happens...they said blowing it will stop the fight in it's tracks. 

4. After the fight, Bodhi was fine.  I left Ribbit in the basement for awhile, then put Bodhi on a leash to take him out (through the basement) in case anything happened.  He and Ribbit went nose to nose...and he didn't react at all.  He was trying to play with him 5 minutes later.  During the rest of the evening Ribbit walked by him many times, very close or even brushing against him, and he paid no attention.  Unfortunately, I was a nervous wreck thinking something would happen...and I know they sense my fear and tension and that makes things worse, but I couldn't help it!

The trainers said many other things...I took notes, but can't think of them right now.  They will be out of town until Monday, but will be coming over as soon as they get back.  They keep saying this is fixable, but I am so on edge.  We've been so lucky for years...all these dogs and no problems....an d now this.  To make matters worse, my husband and stepson are two of the most absent-minded, oblivious men I have ever met....trying to keep them on board with intense training will be damn difficult.  ANY advice, suggestions, or support would be appreciated!!
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 01:00:25 pm by shine »
Sharing my life and love with
Bodhi - Newfoundland
Rio - Loyal Lab/Beagle Mix
Zildjian - Dalmatian
Dolly - Weird Hound Mix
Stubby - Weird Corgi Mix
Ribbit - Grumpy Cocker Mix
House Cats - Bump, Delilah, Stashe, Mischa, Moose
Barn Cats - Archie, Betty, Midge
The Pigs - Ginger & Marianne

Nicole

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Re: Help!! Fighting...I'm scared....!!
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2007, 11:57:05 am »
There is a really great section about this in "Bones Would Rain from the Sky" by Suzanne Clothier. I learned a lot by reading that book.

Anyway, the dogs need to understand that the food is YOURS. Not Bodhi's, not Ribbit's, YOURS. So is the kitchen, so is the basement, etc. They guard cuz they think that the item to be guarded is THEIRS to guard. They won't try as hard when they realize that the food is yours. Make them all work for it. Do NILIF. (NOTHING IN LIFE IS FREE)

You're right about the kitchen. Bodhi thinks its his. Also, you're probably right about Ribbit. You've "put up" with his growling at you and the other dogs. He thinks EVERYTHING is his. So, if EVERYTHING is Ribbits, but Bodhi thinks the kitchen is HIS...there's gonna be conflict, see?

You need to establish yourself as the alpha with ALL those dogs!

Offline slickerk

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Re: Help!! Fighting...I'm scared....!!
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2007, 12:27:47 pm »
I agree as well. I ran into this issue when I took my dog up to my mom's house. It ended with me at the emergency room because my mom's sheepdog accidently put a tooth into the back of my son's head. Nothing major and it was only one stitch, but it could have been worse. I feel that my panic in trying to break the dogs apart worsens matters. This was a temporary situation, so nothing like yours. But I had to show both dogs for the rest of the week, that I was in charge, not them.

Offline Tspanos

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Re: Help!! Fighting...I'm scared....!!
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2007, 01:23:05 pm »
You are handling it right, you'll notice everyone's replies have been along similiar lines.

Offline shine

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Re: Help!! Fighting...I'm scared....!!
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2007, 07:46:25 am »
Thanks for all the support, everyone.  I have to admit, I am over-reacting to this....it shook me up pretty badly, and I am feeling paranoid.  One of the times Bodhi and Ribbit fought was when we were putting away groceries...I'm not sure exactly who did what that started the fight...so I am paranoid every time they are in the kitchen together! 

I wish this didn't make me so nervous.  I feel like a Dog Newbie...I've never dealt with this before.  I've always felt I could read my dogs pretty well, but now I am questioning that.  I've never read NILIF...I'm going to get it and read it ASAP, but can you give me an overview?  I'm assuming it means making them work for everything...f ood, treats, going outside, etc.  We do some of that, and are trying to do more.  When we hand out treats, everyone has to sit and be quiet before they get anything.  I make Bodhi sit and stay before I let him go to his food.  I'm trying to make everyone sit/stay before I let them out. 

Bodhi is not food aggressive with us.  I can't count the number of times I have stuck my hand in his mouth to take out something he has found to chew on, and he has never reacted to me being near his bowl when he eats.  And he doesn't react much with our other dogs....he once chased Rio away from some barf, but she did not challenge him and nothing happened...and he has never reacted when Stubby, Zildjian or Dolly get near him.  It's mainly Ribbit. 

 
Sharing my life and love with
Bodhi - Newfoundland
Rio - Loyal Lab/Beagle Mix
Zildjian - Dalmatian
Dolly - Weird Hound Mix
Stubby - Weird Corgi Mix
Ribbit - Grumpy Cocker Mix
House Cats - Bump, Delilah, Stashe, Mischa, Moose
Barn Cats - Archie, Betty, Midge
The Pigs - Ginger & Marianne