crate used for sleeping and punishment

[saintlykallismom]

Kalli is making want to pull my hair out today! Everytime I have let her outside she won't come back in on her own. I have to go out and chase her around the yard 3 times already today!!! The one time I left her out there while I went to interview because she was going to make me late... she was out there for 2 hours in the cold and snow. When I got home I couldn't get her to go back outside I literally had to drag her and then once she was out I could get her to come back in. So frustrating.

Anyways I have question. When I finally did get her back in the house I put her in crate as punishment. I have been told that you shouldn't use her crate for punishment because that is where she sleeps and where we put her when we leave her at the house alone. Does anyone else use their crates as a sleeping place and for punishment? I don't want he to think that she is bad when I put her in there at night or when we go out. Any feedback you have would be great.

Libby and the bad girl kalli

[Nicole]

Definitely don't use the crate as punishment!!! You want the crate to work FOR you, not against you!

Besides, it won't teach her re-call. It will just teach her that the crate is a bad place to go when mom's mad.

In order to teach re-call, you're going to have to use a leash. YOu can get a long leash and use that. But, if she is playing games like refusing to come back when you let her out, DEFINITELY don't let her out without a leash. With dogs, its all about training, positive reinforcement, basically not allowing any naughty things until they learn what the difference is between naughty and nice. They aren't going to make the connection on their own.

[maxsmom]

Max went through the wouldn't come in stage about a month ago.  I called him once and waited.  He would run towards the door and then veer off and run away.  I waited for a count of 10 and then closed the door, went in and turned off the light.  He only did it at our last outside before bedtime.  I knew he was playing, but I wasn't.  After 10 - 15 minutes, I would turn on the light and go back out.  Everytime, he was standing there waiting.  After about a week, he decided staying outside by himself was not fun, and he came when called again.  I never chased one of my kids around and will not do it with my dogs. The rope is a good way to teach them to come as well.  I always did it in the house and simply went and got them and brought them to where I had originally called them from.  They learned it rather quickly.  Then transfer it to an outside area with a rope on and you will have her coming to you in no time.  Just remember to call them to you at various times just to pet them.  Don't make a habit of always giving a treat or when you stop, some dogs will look for it and not finding it, quit coming.  Good luck with yours.
Kathy

[Bubbalove]

Honestly, our Akita is 2.5 and does this nearly every day~ he has been trained (aced all the tests), used the crate as retreat/punishment/timeout refuge, rewarded with treats and attention, given consistent commands (the same word every time), we have established dominance (obviously, he feels comfortable at home and so this is still a work in progress), etc.  This, we have been told is a "game" and not to put too much emphasis on it and it will pass as he matures. He,fortunately is equiped physically to stay outside so that is what we have had to do in a pinch. He has doggie door access to our garage (which is like his bachelor pad - it hasn't housed a car for 2 years) so he always has a place to go. 
It is an awfully frustrating problem~ one which I would love to hear your eventual solution to.  I will try the lead if you have success..I would be happy to hear!
Best of luck~
Kristen

[saintlykallismom]

Thanks everyone! We will try leashing and being repetitive about the "come" command. We will also try to figure out somewhere else for her to go if we feel she needs punishment. This has all been very helpful and hopefully kalli and I will finally learn how to get this done. Once again many thanks! I will keep you updated on how things are going!

[Nicole]

I just wanted to add that you should be careful about punishing her. Make sure that you are working positively 99% of the time. Banishing types of punishment really REALLY don't teach her anything other than to fear you. She is NOT going to go wherever you put her and "think" about what she did wrong. She's just going to think that you're mad and she doesn't understand it.

She might need time-outs but usually that is an immediate on the spot kind of thing. My dog NEVER needs time outs as he is very very verrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrry low-energy. There isn't ever any reason to stop what he is doing immediately and let him chill. But, for example, Gweck gets mighty rowdy sometimes and might need an immediate time-out to get himself back under control. See what I'm saying? The time-out has to go with the problem. But banishing her to another part of the house will teach her nothing and will only be detrimental to her training process.

[marinafb]

That is very interesting Bryce is doing the samething he thinks he is REALLY funny. I have to go out and drag him in he spys on me behind a tree which i can see him yesterday he was behind a barrel i had to go out and pull him in and i fell on my butt as he danced around me with glee! everyone kept telling me oh he will calm down after he is fixed he is much more of a devil now then he was before! Marina

Kalli is making want to pull my hair out today! Everytime I have let her outside she won't come back in on her own. I have to go out and chase her around the yard 3 times

already today!!! The one time I left her out there while I went to interview because she was going to make me late... she was out there for 2 hours in the cold and snow. When I got home I couldn't get her to go back outside I literally had to drag her and then once she was out I could get her to come back in. So frustrating.

Anyways I have question. When I finally did get her back in the house I put her in crate as punishment. I have been told that you shouldn't use her crate for punishment because that is where she sleeps and where we put her when we leave her at the house alone. Does anyone else use their crates as a sleeping place and for punishment? I don't want he to think that she is bad when I put her in there at night or when we go out. Any feedback you have would be great.

Libby and the bad girl kalli

[karateblossom]

I must be a bad mommy, but odin must go to his kennel for a time-out.....just like I use to put my 2yo in a time out.  We've done this as a puppy and had fabulous compliance.  We used it with our springer too-it was a safe place for them and allowed me to cool off.  Odin is no longer kenneled at night-our goal was by 2 that he would have night time freedom and so we slowly titered down his kennel 'dose' but now, it is used if he gets really bullheaded OR if we r traveng OR if we are staying at anothers home.  I have always treated him as one of my children and although the expectations of him are different, I put myself into mommy mode and he KNOWS mommy (alpha) means business.  I've been known to nip his ear in severe cases of obstinance and our pack order flows nicely.    Punisment-no way....but for a time out for self or for spazz regrouping or cleanup, I've been known to use it.....

[peytons mama]

i am bad mommy then cuz i use peyton's kennel as a time out and ni-ni time. when she is being naughty, we pull her in there and just don't say anything. all we do is look at her eyes and she looks away. she does not bark or whine. she lays down as if she understands that she is a bad girl.

she gets let out when tempers calm - mine and sometimes her rowdyness - but she is always let out in a timely manner.

and when it is ni-ni time, we say it is ni-ni time. we never have to pull her in we just tap on the kennel door and say "ni ni peyt" and she goes in and lays down and she gets a treat. i talk to her and tell her sweet dreams and close the door. sometimes she whines if we don't go to bed (close our bedroom door) right away but she knows that soon enough we will go ni-ni and she lays down with a BIG sigh and goes to sleep.

she has never been affraid of her kennel. we have never had to force her into it. so i think...i think...it depends on how the time out or the "punishment" is being handled. she seems to be very happy in her little ni-ni bed...so we are happy too i guess.

[karateblossom]

AHHHH that sigh. When odin used to be crated at night, he would fall asleep on the floor (usually serving as our footstool) and i would be the ONLY one who could get him to wake up and i would say Odin, bed.  He would drag his body, as if semi sleep walking, into the crate, give a turn and plop.....sigh. ...and that was it!  Never force or negative.  I'm glad it worked for our big headed furry perpetual toddler ......i say firmly....ODIN, KENNEL and he lowers his head and goes in and gives me the grump sigh -with that low throat noise.  He looks away and then after a few minutes, if he doesnt fall asleep, i take him out