Author Topic: Need BPO Help  (Read 5256 times)

bigdogs@5501

  • Guest
Need BPO Help
« on: April 13, 2008, 10:24:58 am »
I have a rescue dog that is a challenge. She has explosive diarhea about every 3rd to 4th day. We have tested for parasites, giardia, coccidia etc, all negative. It was suspected that it could have been salmonella, due to the "livestock" smell she had when we first started trying to fix the problem. She has been on several different antibiotics, sulpha meds, steroids and probiotics. I have had her on the NB salmon and sweet potato. We have only had 2 solid bm's in a month, its has now flared up. She was in my car friday nite and passing gas and poo (yes,ewww) She is also dog aggressive and a major escape artist so she is in a kennel that is reinforced to keep her in. I dont know if her agression is related to how bad she feels, but I think that it has something to do with her attitude. Some times she is so raw that she cries.
We can do a liver biopsy which I think is pretty invasive, other than that, I dont know, I am afraid that she is just not going to get any better. She wants to be loved- and she cries when I have to leave her and go into the house, its tough. I hate it when they cry because they are sad. I cant even bring her into the house becuase of the bowe problem.
SO any suggestions? We are at a point where something has to change- she can not live like this and I am not sure that I am strong enough right now to make a tough decision that may have to be made. I am looking for any suggestions.
Has any one ever had any of a problem like this- maybe my vet is missing something- any suggestions I should make to her to test for?
This is really hard, I really do want the best for all of my rescues and I feel that I am failing at this.

Offline BalthiesMom

  • Ankle Biter
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Dog is my Co-Pilot! :)
    • View Profile
Re: Need BPO Help
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2008, 10:52:02 am »
Hugs to you and your sweet rescue doggie who is suffering from these issues along with you! 

I am new here, so my ideas will not  be coming from any big dog experience, but rather, generalized canine and *animal* experience. Here are just a few things to run through in your mind. If any one of them puts a light of possibility on, you can take it to your vet.

Again, I don't have a solution for this...but I'm open to share possible ideas that run through my mind.

1) Dehydration.  Unfortunately, dehydration is a big catch 22 at times...becaus e your dog is constantly voiding leaky feces, she may not be able to hold in her liquids enough to stay hydrated, based on the frequency you're describing. Her diarrhea may have initially started because of one thing, and now could *continue* for another...dehy dration being one of the possibilities. Even if she is drinking a lot, it sounds like it's coming back out. Is she drinking normally?  In OTHER animal circles...and again, I just want to clarify I am NOT professing to know whether or not this works in your dog's particular case...severe diarrhea will call for a half Pedialyte, half water solution offered as needed to remedy the emergency.  Keep in mind your vet will need to tell you whether this is okay for YOUR dog or not.  There  could also be a problem with nutrients not even being absorbed if they are passing so quickly with the diarrhea regularly.  Nutrition lacking is often a source of mood and behavior problems as well.

2) The meds themselves!  Often, sulfa drugs and probiotics can wreck havoc on a body's system, and it can be hard to "catch back up" to normal stool consistency.  If you haven't already (and you may have), you might even talk with the doctor about taking her OFF the meds for a week or two to see if this helps in any way by the following week. Be very aware that steroids *absolutely* affect behavior and mood over time in both animals AND people...even a short 5 day course of steroids can bring about severe and lasting mood swings until the steroids are not only stopped, but completely out of the system.

3) Anxiety/nervousness.  Could it be possible that this sweet rescue doggie loves you very much and is literally making herself sick worrying about when you'll come back for her?  One of our small dogs, Harvey, is a rescue.  When we first got him, he was so badly neglected and abused that he did not even know how to be inside (he was forced outside and never allowed in, amongst other things). We attempted to crate train him and found that he would have horrible diarrhea IN his crate whenever we left him.  A neighbor let us know that he never, ever stopped crying or barking when we left either....but when we put a diaper on him and let him roam around the house and be with Oscar, our other little dog, he stopped having diarrhea instantly and permanently! :)  One of the best ways to combat animal anxiety is to create a solid, well adhered to routine that stays the same...very consistent...d aily.  This would include everything from location of food dishes, time of first bathroom and wake up, time of meals, time for play, time for sitting around with the family, and time for bed.  Over time, the animal can relax more because s/he knows what comes next...and can remember what the routine is comfortably, thus lessening the anxiety. Separation anxiety itself can be treated differently but this routine schedule format DOES help in many cases!

4) Allergies. What type of food does she presently eat?  What are her treats? What are her supplements, if any?  She could possibly have a problem with *something* in her food intake.  I would recommend talking with your vet about an elimination trial to determine what, if anything, could be a culprit here. In an elimination trial diet, you take away all but the very simplest, purest, confirmed *NON* allergen ingredients and you go with those ONLY for a week, sometimes longer. If symptoms are gone, you may have a food allergy!  If they are not gone, a food allergy could be a problem, but may not be the primary source of concern.

5) You say every 3rd to 4th day...is there a change in her routine, YOUR routine, or ANYONE'S routine in your home?  Does someone work a different shift some days of the week? Is there a change in the time that the dog gets fed? Etc., etc.

6) Loose stool overall...some dogs just have it. Usually it is related to dietary or nutritional needs but anything is possible.

I sure hope you get to the root of it!

Above all else, I can just feel how tired your body and heart are from this tough regimen of dealing with the constant mess, concern, and failed treatments for the diarrhea. Take a deep breathe and wrap your arms around yourself and remember how wonderful you are for rescuing this dog in the first place. You can do it! I am sending you lots of positive energy for peace, renewal, and a fresh perspective to help get to the root of the issue. If there is anything else I can do, please let me know!

Love and Hugs,
Jen and Balthie :)
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be measured in the way its animals are treated." Gandhi

You can lead a compassionate lifestyle by saving animal lives, caring for our planet, and nurturing your health!  Visit www.goveg.org

"Be the change you wish to see in this world." Gan

Offline BalthiesMom

  • Ankle Biter
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Dog is my Co-Pilot! :)
    • View Profile
Re: Need BPO Help
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2008, 11:01:38 am »
Okay I'm really thinking about this for you and I've come up with a few other possibilities:

-Ingesting something unhealthy in or outside the home.  Could she be eating something in the yard (pesticide or chemically treated yard, maybe?), or in the house (licking or ingesting residue from chemical household cleaners)?

-Afraid of another dog in your home? 

-Irritable Bowl Disorder, a weak bowel, an intestinal problem? Have scans been done to check her actual anatomy to ensure this is not an "inside" problem rather than an externally sourced one?

I think I had one or two more thoughts and I forgot them, lol.  Sorry. :(  If I remember I'll post them!  You sound like a WONDERFUL, caring woman and I just want to help!  Hang in there...you're doing great with the resources and information you've got, honey!

Love and Good Vibes,
Jen
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be measured in the way its animals are treated." Gandhi

You can lead a compassionate lifestyle by saving animal lives, caring for our planet, and nurturing your health!  Visit www.goveg.org

"Be the change you wish to see in this world." Gan

lorim2

  • Guest
Re: Need BPO Help
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2008, 11:38:49 am »
I am so sorry this is happening. I dont have anything to add other than maybe a second opinion.  You know how much I love and trust my doc.  My little monica was doing the same thing and no one caught it until I took her to him.  Other than that, I know you well enough to know you are doing everything you can.  Please let me know if I can do anything to help you....Oh and by the way, I did give your number to the foster guy I have been talking to.  I hope he contacted you...Love ya

bigdogs@5501

  • Guest
Re: Need BPO Help
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2008, 11:46:43 am »
I had her at a fosters home and now she is here- there has not been any real improvement except when she was first on the doxcycline and the high doses of the steroids and it was very short lived. She is not in contact with any thing that could cause this problem. She is extremely high strung. If out of her kennel and she escapes she chases livestock with wild abandon. Friday nite she tried to hurt a young puppy that crossed her path. I think that she was a neglected field dog for a long time- she had the bowel problems when she was in the shelter and we just figured that it was stress, but she was in a very non stressful place for over 2 months and no change.

Offline People Whisperer

  • Supreme Drooler
  • ****
  • Posts: 1975
    • View Profile
Re: Need BPO Help
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2008, 12:19:42 pm »
Paige, I am so sorry you are going through this with your foster :( I don't have any advice unfortunately. ..I just hope you will find the solution to this issue :-*
Lily used to eat everything and anything and never had issues. Now she has blowouts every time I add something new :P
"To once own a Great Pyrenees is to love and want one always."
Mary W. Crane

I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it :)


Offline seaherons

  • Big Paw Certified
  • **
  • Posts: 278
    • View Profile
Re: Need BPO Help
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2008, 01:51:00 am »
Hope she is doing a little better.  You have so much experience that I don't know what to add.  There have been some good suggestions about the no grain foods.  There is no doubt that Cirra does best on raw foods!!!  Raw may be worth a try since there are several varieties that are now availble or even some natural "real meat" from the grocery.

Offline Winslow 151

  • Paw-meister
  • **
  • Posts: 538
  • Winslow at 6 Months
    • View Profile
Re: Need BPO Help
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2008, 02:14:51 am »
Hi,

What about just fasting then going the boiled rice and chicken route. Once you get something solid then try adding foods to see what works and doesn't. There ia always pumpkin too, seems to work best for My boy.

Definately fast first as you need to start from an empty tank. Good luck I hope you get it figured out!!
Happy Tails to All
Winslow's Dad

Offline navarre1316

  • BPO Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1059
    • View Profile
Re: Need BPO Help
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2008, 03:13:47 am »
I think a bowel rest from EVERYTHING is a great idea!  I would also have her tested again for worms/parasites/etc.  When I first got Issy she had diarrhea for over two months.  The first stool sample was full of stuff!!!  The second one was neg and the third one had giardia again.  I hope she and you start to feel better.
God placed me on this earth to accomplish certain tasks...I'm so far behind I'll never die!!

Navarre: GSD 9/13/99-5/14/06 patiently waiting
Issabeaux: GSD 1/27/07
Daphne: Boxer
Stone: Siamese mix

Offline GoldenPyrs

  • Supreme Drooler
  • ****
  • Posts: 1681
    • View Profile
Re: Need BPO Help
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2008, 04:26:32 am »
Paige, this really sounds a lot like my Daisy.  She has IBD & food allergies and the only thing that controls her diarrhea & vomiting is Natural Balance Duck & Potato. Once I tried giving her just a few kibbles of the fish/sweet potato variety she had horrible gas & diarrhea, so it's a no-go for her. 

Daisy's digestive tract would calm down on the antibiotics also and then within a few days after we'd stop the meds, the vomiting & diarrhea would be back again in full force.  It was a roller coaster for a couple of months until we switched to duck & potato.  Since the change in food she hasn't needed the antibiotics again & it's been 2 years.  Our vet also prescribed Endosorb and it's really works!  We keep it on hand and only use it if she starts having stomach problems because of a food that she steals off of the table or something.  ;)  It seems to calm down the cramping, gas, vomiting & diarrhea within an hour or so. 

I would also suggest that you fast her for a day or so to let her system clear out & calm down and then I would try the duck & potato.  In my experience it seems much milder on their stomachs.  If your vet agrees, you may want to try Endosorb and see if it works well for her, too.

I should add that Sammy had loose stools on Eagle Pack when we adopted him, but his also firmed up on the duck & potato.  Now, a year later, I've just transitioned him to a mixture of duck & potato and Wellness, but it took time.

I'd also have to guess that this poor girl is probably feeling awful (Daisy sure did, the cramping must be miserable for them) and that could certainly affect her behavior.  Hopefully, this will all improve over time.  Bless you for everything that you are doing for her!   ;D :-*
Marie

And my pups:
Daisy a 9 y/o Golden/Lab mix
Sammy a 6-7(?) y/o Great Pyrenees adopted 3/07
Cassie a 3 y/o Pyr/Mystery Snuggle Bunny mix adopted 2/07

My angel girls waiting at the Bridge:
Cara 1989-2001 Great Pyrenees
Sally ? - 1993 Dobie(rescued '92)
Halley 2002-2006 Great Pyrenees