Author Topic: to breed or not to breed is the question...HELP!!!  (Read 7108 times)

Offline DaneMom

  • Full Fledged Chewer
  • *
  • Posts: 61
    • View Profile
to breed or not to breed is the question...HELP!!!
« on: August 08, 2005, 12:17:04 pm »
Ok, i have a brindle dane pup and im wondering more about breeding. i dont know if its a good idea or not. im more so on the not since im afraid that a pup or 2 might end up in a bad home or the people may not be able to care for them when they get to a certain point in their life. everyone please tell me what you think on this...she is AKC and i am getting her hips x-rayed to make sure she is healthy and all the other tests. im wondering now cause she is almost 6 months old and if i decide to get he fixed i want to do it soon. BTW i have never breed a dog before, only rats so i think that is a big difference..LO L thanks ahead of time for all your info..

ANGEL

Offline DaneMom

  • Full Fledged Chewer
  • *
  • Posts: 61
    • View Profile
Re: to breed or not to breed is the question...HELP!!!
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2005, 12:35:14 pm »
thats true. im more scared that a pup may not find the perfect home and i dont know if i could deal with that. i would hate to bring a pup into the world and have it suffer. i wanted to have the experiece of a litter but im just afraid of the what ifs, like you said. i dont know if i could deal with one suffering or a still birth. i think im makin up my own mind..lol i guess i just wanted more info from people that have been through this or have seen this.  thanks for the info!

ANGEL

Offline greek4

  • Majestic Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 966
  • Kole with Maia, Baxter, Rocco, and Cody
    • View Profile
Re: to breed or not to breed is the question...HELP!!!
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2005, 12:35:28 pm »
I would take into consideration her pedigree.  Were her parents champions, etc?  Would she be able to produce pups that meet AKC standards or would they be a little off?  Does she fit the standard in her attitude, her behavior, he looks, etc?

Also, are there always Danes for sale in your area of the country?  Would your pups be high quality enough to compete with a person who shows their dogs pups?   Is the demand for danes higher than the current supply?

Pups are hard work, deciding to breed is a lifetime committment.  Would you be willing to keep pups if no homes were found or take pups back if the owner decide they don't want them? 
Are you willing to give up 2-3 months of you life cleaning up poop, etc?  Do you have the space to house 8-10 giant breed puppies?  Is the rest of your family on board with breeding?

I have a 15 month old OEM who I had originally thought I would breed.  I am on the fence (falling toward spaying her) about breeder her now because she went through an aggressive stage.  She is fine now but I don't want to risk creating aggressive puppies.

It is really up to you if you want to breed your dog.  Just keep an open mind.
Thanks,

Emily and 1 husband, 1 boy, 1 on the way, and 4 crazy dogs

Offline sarnewfie

  • Leader of the Pack
  • **
  • Posts: 484
    • View Profile
    • HarborWinds Newfoundlands and Stain Glass
Re: to breed or not to breed is the question...HELP!!!
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2005, 12:38:00 pm »
No matter the health testing, the results can be same or worse than using one cleared and one not, as with cleared up the wazoo on both ends, not only do you think of what is mentioned above and so well, you are responsible for what you produce.
it is heartache, dedication, blood sweat and tears, it is rewarding, yet you need a very thick skin, there are many out there that will critisize, as they do how to raise your children, same with breeding, i have yet to see that joint problems, the same ones we suffer from i might add, are improving in giant breeds, and by limiting the gene pool there is trouble out there already, from different arena, but the pandoras box is opened and now we are paying for it.
going on line, i see in so many in fact the majority of pedigrees, many o the same lines.
where they heck is diversity in that.
the show rings promote harmful fads and vogue. and only breeding for "type" and "coat" and "head" is wrong.
anyway, it is a very good idea if you do this, to wait till she is two, and get yourself some mentors to help you out.
i got into newfs in 86, and didnt start my breeding program till 2000
i wanted to work these dogs, and really get to know them so i knew i was breeding the right traits.
Photography by Christine
http://harborwinds.fototime.com/PHOTOS FOR ORDERS

HarborWinds Newfoundlands&Search and Rescue
http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Haven/4505

ann

  • Guest
Re: to breed or not to breed is the question...HELP!!!
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2005, 01:08:16 pm »


     it is your choice to breed or not to breed and i'm so happy your asking questions before and if you do it.........i have never bred a dog before but i did consider it with my female boxer so i did research and i found out i don't have the time or money it takes to do it right ..i talked     to my vet about it and she came out and told me madie was not up to standard(don't tell madie) and she  also said to go and see how many boxers are in shelters and recues and thier was alot and i don't want to add to the problem so she was spayed........ ....good luck  let us know what ya decide........ ...ann

Offline Anky

  • Supreme Drooler
  • ****
  • Posts: 1511
    • View Profile
Re: to breed or not to breed is the question...HELP!!!
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2005, 02:11:42 pm »
Personally, I feel like a dog has to prove itself worthy to be bred.  Are you going to show your pup?  I saw that you bought her out of the paper for $200.  I'm NOT downing her for that at all and I want you to realize that, but that is a big hint to me that she most likely isn't breed worthy.  My pup has Many Many Champions recently in his line, but as good looking as he is (I'm not baised or anything), he isn't worth breeding.

The goal of every breeder should be to better the breed.  You should strive to produce dogs that adhere to the Great Dane Club of America standard.  No offense to your baby, who is ADORABLE by the way, but do you think she looks like the standard?  I work in rescue, and although there aren't alot of Danes in my area, I am on a lot of Dane rescue boards and there are so many of them in rescue.  To breed your pup with no real purpose, just adds to the rescue problem.

A friend of mine rescued a pregnant dane, as well as the father.  She raised that litter, and luckily she works out of her home as a dog groomer because it's a 24/7 job.  Several pups died, and it was heartwrenching .  She did everything right in finding homes, home checks, contracts, and even after all that she had to rehome 2 of them twice, and there are 2 right now that are in homes that, although they aren't BAD, they aren't the best.  In other words, they wanted a dog not a Dane.  She wishes that she had placed these dogs in other homes but as they aren't being mistreated she can't do anything about it.

I too am happy your'e asking these questions, and with an open mind. Our English Setter's breeder wanted us to breed her so bad.  However we didn't have the time to make her a field trial champion dog, and as such no way to prove she was worthy of being bred, so she was spayed.  Everyonce in a while I look at her and think of how nice it would be to have one or two of her puppies, but I know my decision was for the best.

Ang

PS.  I just want to add that AKC is NOT a mark of quality.  Most puppy mill puppies are AKC registered.  All that means is that the American Kennel Club knows that dog exists and they can trace their ancestors that were registered.  Kind of like a Social Security number.

BPO's Official Mistress of Mirth
                       
Charter Member of the Official Suspicious Chicken Fan Club

"And you will know us by the trail of skank."

GYPSY JAZMINE

  • Guest
Re: to breed or not to breed is the question...HELP!!!
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2005, 02:23:55 pm »
Personally, I feel like a dog has to prove itself worthy to be bred.  Are you going to show your pup?  I saw that you bought her out of the paper for $200.  I'm NOT downing her for that at all and I want you to realize that, but that is a big hint to me that she most likely isn't breed worthy.  My pup has Many Many Champions recently in his line, but as good looking as he is (I'm not baised or anything), he isn't worth breeding.

The goal of every breeder should be to better the breed.  You should strive to produce dogs that adhere to the Great Dane Club of America standard.  No offense to your baby, who is ADORABLE by the way, but do you think she looks like the standard?  I work in rescue, and although there aren't alot of Danes in my area, I am on a lot of Dane rescue boards and there are so many of them in rescue.  To breed your pup with no real purpose, just adds to the rescue problem.

A friend of mine rescued a pregnant dane, as well as the father.  She raised that litter, and luckily she works out of her home as a dog groomer because it's a 24/7 job.  Several pups died, and it was heartwrenching .  She did everything right in finding homes, home checks, contracts, and even after all that she had to rehome 2 of them twice, and there are 2 right now that are in homes that, although they aren't BAD, they aren't the best.  In other words, they wanted a dog not a Dane.  She wishes that she had placed these dogs in other homes but as they aren't being mistreated she can't do anything about it.

I too am happy your'e asking these questions, and with an open mind. Our English Setter's breeder wanted us to breed her so bad.  However we didn't have the time to make her a field trial champion dog, and as such no way to prove she was worthy of being bred, so she was spayed.  Everyonce in a while I look at her and think of how nice it would be to have one or two of her puppies, but I know my decision was for the best.

Ang

PS.  I just want to add that AKC is NOT a mark of quality.  Most puppy mill puppies are AKC registered.  All that means is that the American Kennel Club knows that dog exists and they can trace their ancestors that were registered.  Kind of like a Social Security number.


I had the option of breeding Pippin & he is worthy of being bred but NO WAY!!!...I just want a faithful furry friend so he'll be fixed...I will leave the breeding to people who know what they are doing...As far as being AKC registered, I got a tearful phone call last night from a woman I know who had gone down south & bought a 7 week old Chihuahua pup from a pet store...Well, the pup has diabetes & other health problems...The woman kept saying " but he's AKC registered"...Being AKC registered does not make for a healthy pup or mean it's up to breed standard...Lik e Anky said, it just means the AKC knows it exsist...Good luck in whatever you decide to do but from what I have researched, seen & heard personally breeding takes a whole lot of time, money, emotion & comittment.... I'd sooner enjoy the fluff butts I have now!

Offline DaneMom

  • Full Fledged Chewer
  • *
  • Posts: 61
    • View Profile
Re: to breed or not to breed is the question...HELP!!!
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2005, 03:18:24 pm »
the reason they sold her for so cheap is because they got evicted and had to move ASAP. she had 2 brothers that were left besides her that were show quality. they told me they were the best ones since they were show quality but i wanted her because she is very vocal. i like a dog that try's to talk..lol

i talked to my husband and we both decided not to breed her. it would be nice to keep a pup of hers and experiece the joy of it all but i dont have the heart if something happend to one of the pups. so i will do that soon since she is of age soon to start her monthly.

thanks you everyone that responded to me. this was a great help for us and its time to make that appt to get my baby's playpen fixed so no pups get in there and play..LOL

Offline kildeskennel

  • Paw-meister
  • **
  • Posts: 516
  • Beautiful beauty
    • View Profile
    • Kildes Kennel
Re: to breed or not to breed is the question...HELP!!!
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2005, 03:41:11 pm »
Breeding is a very big decision and full of much responsibiliti es, not to mention it does cost a pretty penny to make sure everyone if healthy before going to new homes , and all vaccinations and wormings are up to date.  It is very time consuming, and If you are doing it right you are also training pups to basics before placement.  It was easier for us with 3 kids and a large kennel to work with the pups, and we were potty training the last 6 prior to placing them.  As a responsible breeder you need to be available to that dog for the lifetimeo f that dog, and available to the new owners should they need you, and as mentioned, make sure you are improving on the breed.  One thing I will disagree with is the "show" part.  I do not show my dogs, and will not.  I do not enjoy the attitudes I have witnessed in the ring and my dogs are also members of my family,  both my male and female have lines full of champions, they were both pick of the litter, and their cost reflects that, we do like agility and may get into that as our boy loves it, but other than that....Our pups are evaluated and the ones who can be,  are sold as "potential show quality" or "potential for breeding"  truly you will not know if either is an option until the pups are much older.  I see you have already made your decision, so know I jumped in late on the conversation.  Had to reply anyway!  Shana
Happiness comes of the capacity to feel deeply, to enjoy simply, to think freely, to risk life, to be needed.
Storm Jameson

Offline DaneMom

  • Full Fledged Chewer
  • *
  • Posts: 61
    • View Profile
Re: to breed or not to breed is the question...HELP!!!
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2005, 03:45:59 pm »
Made the date to get her playpen fixed..August the 17th is the lucky day! any info on what will make her most comfy after its done and i bring her home? thanks all for the info!

ANGEL

Offline sarnewfie

  • Leader of the Pack
  • **
  • Posts: 484
    • View Profile
    • HarborWinds Newfoundlands and Stain Glass
Re: to breed or not to breed is the question...HELP!!!
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2005, 03:46:47 pm »
Just becouse dogs are Ch does not mean they are worthy to breed, i have seen horribly broken down fronts in our newfs, that are CH and bred, a BIS winner with a bad rear.
sorry that does not cut it with me, the politics are hot and heavy and with breeders now finishing whole litters?
sorry i dont bu ythat either.
Photography by Christine
http://harborwinds.fototime.com/PHOTOS FOR ORDERS

HarborWinds Newfoundlands&Search and Rescue
http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Haven/4505

Offline Anky

  • Supreme Drooler
  • ****
  • Posts: 1511
    • View Profile
Re: to breed or not to breed is the question...HELP!!!
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2005, 04:01:13 pm »
I dont' want my post misinterpreted, which is the only reason I'm chiming in again.  Yes I agree that alot of politics are involved in the show world, and that dogs that shouldn't be finished often are.  However (This is weird because a post along this line is going on in one of my Dane rooms), Danes don't have working lines vs showing lines, and in my opinion, I think that there is no reason to breed a Dane if it isn't at least pointed. 

Please hear me out.  Shana, your Pyrs are Live stock guardian dogs.  They still can be found doing the very job that they were bred for.  (I don't see many Danes, if any, nowadays being used for boar hunting).  Because you have dogs that have proven themselves as working dogs, they've already proven themselves, and don't really need to be proven in the show ring. 

There are several breeds that have definitive working and showing lines.  A working dog won't do well in the show ring and the show dog can't herd.  I doubt I'll ever see a GSD that is a champion in the ring do well as a herding dog.  The pasterns'll take care of that.  Show ring Aussies are long necked and lack of coat, and are in general more snipey than their sturdier working cousins.  Confirmation borders are much more bulky than the slinkier ones that are such excellent herding dogs.  A Bench English Setter can be a field trial dog, but a field setter can never be a Chamionship winning show dog.  However Malmutes are a dog that often goes from the ring to work the next day (I know there are many many multi titled dogs in the world, and I'm not debating this, or saying which breeds can and can't be multi titled, I'm just giving examples).

Sarnwefie.

Newfies are still used in water work.  They're still a dog that's doing what it's bred to do.  I don't know very much about Newfies so I won't pretend that I do.  I'm talking about Great Danes in particular, and while I totall and completely agree that there are quite a few of them that I think don't adhere to the standard, if you have a dog that does, why not show it?  The reason I say this is because every single owner or breeder or whatever suffers from kennel blindness.  If we didn't have impartial (And I know often they're not impartial) parties judge them, eventually the breds we love would look nothing like themselves.  With Danes, someone who likes a more heavy dog will eventually get a dog that looks more like a long legged mastiff (Nothing against Mastiff owners, but if you want a mastiff, get a mastiff).  And the people who like snipier dogs will end up with more of a giant greyhound (Nothing agaisnt greyhound people, but if youwant a greyhound, get a greyhound.)  That is why I beleive showing, especially in my breed of choice is so important.

Ang
BPO's Official Mistress of Mirth
                       
Charter Member of the Official Suspicious Chicken Fan Club

"And you will know us by the trail of skank."

Offline sarnewfie

  • Leader of the Pack
  • **
  • Posts: 484
    • View Profile
    • HarborWinds Newfoundlands and Stain Glass
Re: to breed or not to breed is the question...HELP!!!
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2005, 04:11:08 pm »
why not show???
i will give you a million reasons why

becouse in order to compete  you  need the top handler to win
becouse when i had showed under two wi judges they wouldnt even look nor touch my lanseer, one even went so far as to ask me what i was bringing "that" into her ring for.
i should have reported her.
They judges are picked by the club, the club members decide, and who do they pick?
the judges that like their dogs.
the newfoundland is a working dog, a definate split is there, and i dont need some judge who doesnt even specialize in my breed telling me who is good and who is not, when i have been in the breed many years and am quite capable of judging for myself who is a good moving, well put together, well temp, and instincts intact example of a newf, that is not overdone with frigging coat so it can be SCISSOR CUT on the WHOLE body, i do not play the games and this is not a cut to you nor snide nor snotty, your comment on GSD and AUssie is sooooo true! LOL
Photography by Christine
http://harborwinds.fototime.com/PHOTOS FOR ORDERS

HarborWinds Newfoundlands&Search and Rescue
http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Haven/4505

Offline kildeskennel

  • Paw-meister
  • **
  • Posts: 516
  • Beautiful beauty
    • View Profile
    • Kildes Kennel
Re: to breed or not to breed is the question...HELP!!!
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2005, 04:20:59 pm »
LOL!   I agree with your perception of the show ring!  I also find the attitudes of the other handlers atrocious!  The way they snip and snap at eachother reminds me of a grade school play yard complete with "my daddy is bigger than your daddy"  I realize others here do show and enjoy it, however the confirmation ring was my experience and although Beauty did well in the puppy class I knew it was something I would not put her, nor myself through ever again.  As I said earlier, Aidan enjoys agility, and my husband likes it as well so we may try that out, it looks to be a much funner type of "showing" for both parties! :D
Happiness comes of the capacity to feel deeply, to enjoy simply, to think freely, to risk life, to be needed.
Storm Jameson

Offline Anky

  • Supreme Drooler
  • ****
  • Posts: 1511
    • View Profile
Re: to breed or not to breed is the question...HELP!!!
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2005, 07:15:17 pm »
Don't worry I don't take it as a snide or a cut. :)  I guess my perception of showing is skewed as I know many breeder/owner/handler or at least owner/handler dogs that have finished.  I do agree that alot of professional handlers are nasty nasty people.  At all the shows I've gone to the professional handlers have been way nastier than the owners or the breeders have been. 

Like I said before I don't know anything about Newfs.  NOTHING! :P  I am guessing here, but I think that the Landseer aspect that you deal with is similar to the problems that Dane people have when their dog is any other color than fawn, or if they have natural ears.  It's very hard to overcome biases.  I don't know how broad the show world is for Newfs, in Danes it's HUGE and there are so many judges that entries often pick shows based on the judges, which I'll admit kind of defeats the purpose (ie:  If alot of judges say your bitch is too doggy, go to a judge that likes big heavy bitches). 

Personally on pretty much all dogs I prefer the working line dogs.  They're more, I don't know, real I guess.  I hate when I'm watching a show and I'll see a dog breed and think "What is that?" only to find out that it's a dog I've known forever just they look nothing like they're supposed to.

I don't want you to think that I'm trying to tell anyone what to do.  I was just offering my personal opinion.  When and if I do breed I intend to show, but I also intend to have titled my dogs in obedience, rally, agility and be registered therapy dogs.  While I believe showing is important to me, it's worthless without the temperament and spirit to back it up.

Ang

PS.  I was looking at Aussies for a while.  I love them and was going to get one and then get my Dane.  I got several references, and looked up a show line breeder.  I thought to myself "God that dog is ugly", only to find out at the time he was the number 3 Aussie in the country.  Ewwwwww.
BPO's Official Mistress of Mirth
                       
Charter Member of the Official Suspicious Chicken Fan Club

"And you will know us by the trail of skank."