Author Topic: For Discussion: Cloning Dogs??  (Read 4703 times)

Offline Leah-n-boy-os

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For Discussion: Cloning Dogs??
« on: August 03, 2005, 02:32:03 pm »
Hmmm, I didn't see this on the boards anywhere, so I wasn't sure if anyone had seen this yet. South Korea has cloned a dog. See below:

Found here: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050803/ap_on_sc/dog_clone;_ylt=AqLDyw1UN6Lnepny3dEl3QKs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-

Scientists for the first time have cloned a dog. But don't count on a better world populated by identical and resourceful Lassies just yet.

That's because the dog duplicated by     South Korea's cloning pioneer, Hwang Woo-suk, is an Afghan hound, a resplendent supermodel in a world of mutts, but ranked by dog trainers as the least companionable and most indifferent among the hundreds of canine breeds.

The experiment extends the remarkable string of laboratory successes by Hwang, but also reignites a fierce ethical and scientific debate about the rapidly advancing technology.

Last year, Hwang's team created the world's first cloned human embryos. In May, they created the first embryonic stem cells that genetically match injured or sick patients.

Researchers nicknamed their cloned pal Snuppy, which is shorthand for "Seoul National University puppy." One of the dog's co-creators, Gerald Schatten of the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, describes their creation, now 14 weeks old, as "a frisky, healthy, normal, rambunctious puppy."

Researchers congratulated the Korean team on improving techniques that might someday be medically useful. Others, including the cloner of Dolly the sheep, renewed their demand for a worldwide ban on human reproductive cloning.

"Successful cloning of an increasing number of species confirms the general impression that it would be possible to clone any mammalian species, including humans," said Ian Wilmut, a reproductive biologist at the University of Edinburgh, who produced Dolly nearly a decade ago.

Since then, researchers have cloned cats, goats, cows, mice, pigs, rabbits, horses, deer, mules and gaur, a large wild ox of Southeast Asia. Uncertainties about the health and life span of cloned animals persist; Dolly died prematurely in 2003 after developing cancer and arthritis.

"The ability to use the underlying technology in developing research models and eventually therapies is incredibly promising," said Robert Schenken, president of the American Society for Reproductive Medicine. "However, the paper also points out that in dogs as in most species, cloning for reproductive purposes is unsafe."

The experiment's outcome only seems to buoy the commercial pet-cloning industry, which has charged up to $50,000 per animal. The first cloned-to-order pet sold in the United States was a 9-week-old kitten produced by the biotech firm, Genetic Savings & Clone Inc. of Sausalito, Calif.

Company officials said they expect to commercially clone a dog within a year using eggs collected from spaying procedures at veterinary clinics. The South Korean researchers can surgically remove eggs from research animals with fewer regulations than in the United States.

"This justifies our investment in the field," said spokesman Ben Carlson. "We've long suspected that if anyone beat us to this milestone, it would be Dr. Hwang's team — due partly to their scientific prowess, and partly to the greater availability of canine surrogates and ova in South Korea."

But the dog cloning team tried to distance its work from commercial cloning. "This is to advance stem cell science and medicine, not to make dogs by this unnatural method," Schatten said.

On scientific terms, the experiment's success was mixed. More than 1,000 cloned embryos were implanted into surrogate mothers and just three pregnancies resulted. That's a cloning efficiency rate lower than experiments with cloned cats and horses. Details appear in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature.

Like Dolly and other predecessors, Snuppy was created using a method called somatic cell nuclear transfer, or SCNT.

Scientists transfer genetic material from the nucleus of a donor adult cell to an egg whose nucleus — with its genetic material — has been removed. The reconstructed egg holding the DNA from the donor cell is treated with chemicals or electric current to stimulate cell division.

Once the cloned embryo reaches a suitable stage, it is transferred to the uterus of a surrogate where it continues to develop until birth.

Dog eggs are problematic because they are released from the ovary earlier than in other mammals. This time, the researchers waited and collected more mature unfertilized eggs from the donors' fallopian tubes.

They used DNA from skin cells taken from the ear of a 3-year-old male Afghan hound to replace the nucleus of the eggs. Of the three pregnancies that resulted, there was one miscarried fetus and one puppy that died of pneumonia 22 days after birth.

That left Snuppy as the sole survivor. He was delivered by Caesarean section from his surrogate mother, a yellow Labrador retriever.

Researchers determined that both of the puppies that initially survived were genetically identical to the donor dog.

Schatten said the Afghan hound's genetic profile is relatively pure and easy to distinguish compared to dogs with more muddled backgrounds. But dog experts said the researchers' choice of breed choice was disquieting.

"The Afghan hound is not a particularly intelligent dog, but it is beautiful," said psychologist Stanley Coren, author of the best-selling manual "The Intelligence of Dogs." He ranked the Afghan hound last among 119 breeds in temperament and trainability.

"Many people who opt for the cloning technique are more interested in fashionable looks," he said. "Whenever we breed dogs for looks and ignore behavior, we have suffered."


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My question to you all: What do you think of this?

My opinion, I don't think they should do this. I'm not even going to go into the morality of it, but I am hard pressed to believe that this puppy has the same benefit in-uetero as a normally concieved pup. Antibodies...b uilt in Immunosystem? I'm fascinated by the science of it, but, as with Dolly the poor sheep, there is the potential for severe complications.

I'm interested in what you all think.
Leah and the Boy-os
Apollo (Akita/St. Bernard)
Zeus (Heinz 57)
Onyx (Newfoundland)
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Being owned by Big Paws just indicates how big your heart is.

located - Gig Harbor, WA

Offline GrumpyBunny

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Re: For Discussion: Cloning Dogs??
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2005, 02:40:58 pm »
Well, I am not going to go into the morality of it either, but for some reason looking at the pictures that I saw of the puppy just makes me kind of sad. 
*Founder of the Official Suspicious Chicken Fan Club*

Offline Khiori

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Re: For Discussion: Cloning Dogs??
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2005, 02:44:30 pm »
I didn't read the whole article.  And I think the puppy (the picture I saw at least) was incredibly cute.  But I'm very.... apprehensive about cloning dogs.. or cats, or sheep, or people, or or or.  I just see so much opportunity to exploit that it truely frightens me.  I hope that there will be a world wide kind of set of rules of conduct.  However, that might be asking too much :\

lins_saving_grace

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Re: For Discussion: Cloning Dogs??
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2005, 07:01:15 am »
This is all over the news.  I'm not sure what to think about it.  I think it's something that may lead to really good things in society in about 100 years.  But why do they always pick on the dogs and cats to test these new proceedures?  I haven't made up my mind about it.  I see where a lot of good can come from it...but I also see where a lot of bad can come out of it in the wrong hands. 

GR8DAME

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Re: For Discussion: Cloning Dogs??
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2005, 07:10:00 am »
 :( Sorry if this offends anybody, but the concept of cloned dogs offends me. As if there isn't enough of a pet population explosion the normal way. Just more innocent creatures to expliot and destroy on the whim of human beings.  And you can bet some unscrupulous person-people-group will find a way to expliot it for fun and profit.
Stella

Offline Carolyn

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Re: For Discussion: Cloning Dogs??
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2005, 08:32:29 am »
Personally I think the cloning issue is not good. I would love to bring back my GSD Cheyenne, he's been gone 2-1/2 years & I still think of him everyday. When we got Apache, we wanted a dog with the typical shepard markings. I was very glad he was not at all like Cheyenne. When we picked him up there was a dog that could have been his "clone" I cried when I saw him & had to walk away. Every animal has his/her own personality. Kiya does look like him & she does things that remind me of him. I think now I would rather cherish my Cheyenne & remember him, and learn my new babies personalities.
Carolyn
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Offline Joji

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Re: For Discussion: Cloning Dogs??
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2005, 08:46:57 am »
I'm not against cloning per se - it's the intent of cloning that concerns me. I think the possibility of regenerating a dying species, say the condor, the Mexican gray wolf, or whatever-the-heck that woodpecker is called in Arkansas, gives our world new hope. What if cloning leads to regenerating amputated limbs or organs for those on waiting lists?  But what if people use the knowledge to try to bring back a specific life ... the faithful dog, cat or -egads- loved one.  What if humans look at cloning as a free license for entertainment ... say hunting (I'm not against hunting, but as an example). Stock a private preserve with cloned animals who sole purpose is to be hunted. For me, it's all about intent ...
If you think dogs can't count, try putting three dog biscuits in your pocket and then giving Fido only two of them. -Phil Pastoret

BabsT

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Re: For Discussion: Cloning Dogs??
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2005, 08:52:12 am »
I was under the impression with cloning...it was pretty exact but not 100%...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/21/tech/main537380.shtml

Offline Saintgirl

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Re: For Discussion: Cloning Dogs??
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2005, 08:58:47 am »
I am personally against clonning. They can genetically reproduce an identical dog from another, but that does not make them the same dog. They may appear the same, but personalities CAN NOT be clonned. Just because someone had the most wonderful dog in the world and they decided that they wanted to clone it just so that they would always have that dog around it will only be the same dog in looks alone. The environment plays a critical role in the development of personality traits, social stimuli moulds deelopment in different ways. Just ask any set of identical people if they are the same person, they are not! Identicle DNA only means that they consist of the same genetic blueprints.

Also, they have had horrible luck with clonning in the past. Dolly the sheep had a premature death due to joint problems etc, that were not the case in the sheep she was clonned from. I can see how there are benefits to clonning hearts, tissues etc, but there has to be a time in our lives when we say enough is enough and let nature take its course.
But this is only my opinion...
Leah, Hutch, and Abbey

Offline Joji

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Re: For Discussion: Cloning Dogs??
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2005, 12:48:06 pm »
On the flip side ... if I could be cloned, I could put in a 10-hour day at work, clean house, cook dinner and go out and shop all day without anyone being the wiser. :-)
If you think dogs can't count, try putting three dog biscuits in your pocket and then giving Fido only two of them. -Phil Pastoret