Author Topic: To Spay/Neuter...or Not? What do you think?  (Read 25648 times)

Offline ZooCrew

  • Tail Wagging Champ
  • *****
  • Posts: 3355
  • Never say Never to a pet in need
    • View Profile
Re: To Spay/Neuter...or Not? What do you think?
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2008, 03:18:06 am »
For me, I will always spay/neuter my animals unless they are to be shown in the ring.  IMHO, I think the benefits far outweigh the risks.  Do you know how many "oops" litters you hear about?  They are sooooo prevelant in the US, it's not even funny.  That is the number one reason to spay and neuter your pets.  That is why there is such a push in this country to get your pets spayed/neutered.

I dont' think anyone can say they can w/o a doubt, be 100% sure they can keep their intact pets from other intact pets, whether it be their own pets, or someone elses.   You hear all the time of breeders having oops litters and they know what they are doing (hopefully).

I have had both Keiko and Gunther fixed at 6 mo old.  Keiko started showing signs of incontenance around 5 yrs of age.  We put her on meds for 2 yrs, then took her off and other than occasional very light leakage (not noticable unless you push on her stomach) we've had no problems.  All she needs is to go out once more during the day than the others.  Both she and Gunther have perfectly fine joints (other than some arthritis for Keiko, but she is 10 yrs old), no problems with either of their hips.

Nigel and Posey are not fixed.  And if I had it my way, they would be.  If my friend doesn't get on the ball soon with helping get their paperwork together I will say screw showing them and fix them both.  It is a big PITA to have two intact animals of opposite sexes.  I couldn't imagine having all 4 intact.   :o  :o  Having to keep an eagle eye on Posey when she is in heat, not to mention having to deal with the bleeding is very stressful.  Nigel has marking issues which is very commen with intact males.  His is due to separation anxiety but I would rather not have to deal with it. 

And I hope you don't want to socialize you intact animals much.  Both intact males and females often have problems with animals of the same sex as they are.  I know Nigel often challenges (or pretends to) other dogs.  He is mostly bluffing but some dogs aren't.  And God forbid there is a female in heat in the neighborhood.  Your male will go nuts.  I already had that problem at the dog park.  There must have been a female in heat either at the dog park recently or in the neighborhood.  Nigel was humping dogs left and right and had to stay on leash most of the time there.

And intact males are just as likely to get testicular cancer as females to get breast cancer.

I have no problem with someone waiting to get their dog fixed.  6 mo, 12 mo, 18 mo, whatever.  But animals don't make the choice to breed or not to breed.  Instinct takes over.  And for me, that alone is enough of an incentive to spay/neuter.

Offline patrick

  • Paw-meister
  • **
  • Posts: 560
    • View Profile
    • Great Pyrenees
Re: To Spay/Neuter...or Not? What do you think?
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2008, 06:34:53 am »
I think you overplay the oops litters by breeders.  In 18 years I have had ONE oops and that is with 6-10 intact females and males available to breed same.  The unplanned litters that occur are by far due to pet owners that leave their dogs run loose and if you can't or are unable to keep separated when needed - then by all means spay!

Testicular cancer is so low in incidence as to be close to non-existent (2/10ths of 1 percent) and is one of the cancers that is usually  curable.  Testicular cancer would not entice me to neuter HOWEVER osteosarcoma up to 25% sure prevents me from early neuter!  And spay incontinence is a prevalent reason females are given up to the shelters-at an older age when they are not very adoptable.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 06:38:13 am by patrick »

Offline FurTornado

  • Gnawer
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: To Spay/Neuter...or Not? What do you think?
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2008, 06:59:12 am »
I've had males where it is necessary to neuter due to medical problems. One had benign tumors developing which the neutering fixed (forgive me it was a long time ago and I forget the name of the disease). The benign tumors usually give way to cancerous if let go with this situation. I had another male who kept on getting bladder infections. It was a testicle that was infected. They didn't find it until the neutering. So, there are other reasons I neuter other than testicular cancer. As for the age... I think do your research and if you decide to neuter do it with information. I cannot neuter my dobie at the moment. First, he is too young in my opinion (10 months) and second, the breeder wants to show him. After the show career is over, he will be neutered. No matter if you neuter or not, nothing is 100% guaranteed to prevent everything. There are behavioral as well as medical situations to consider.

All my females are spayed (or will be soon). It seems that the medical side of that points more toward spaying than not. Again, it is a choice that needs to be informed. I also don't want to raise a bunch of puppies and go through the process of finding them homes. I am not a breeder and too many dogs need homes as it is.
Owned by a Weim, Dobie, Mal, and Sheltie!

Offline Saint and Mal mom

  • BPO Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1203
    • View Profile
Re: To Spay/Neuter...or Not? What do you think?
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2008, 01:50:49 pm »
I think it's important though to differentiate between clearly careless "oops" litters of pups and actual "oops" litters that reputable breeders can have happen to them at times.

People who don't make a real effort to contain their dogs and don't spay/neuter them are just asking for these "accidental" litters. Whereas reputable breeders who make valiant efforts to make sure no litter is made without serious thought and consideration, their "oops" litters aren't the ones you'll find in the papers or on Craigslist.
Marissa

Zoey- Alaskan Malamute, 4 years
Dolly, CGC- Saint Bernard, 4 years
Foster mom to Clarence- Basset Hound, 5 years

"To be loved by...any animal should fill us with awe-for we have not deserved it."

Offline Saint and Mal mom

  • BPO Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1203
    • View Profile
Re: To Spay/Neuter...or Not? What do you think?
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2008, 02:07:42 pm »
I completely agree. Also, maybe you have too many intact dogs as a breeder if you are unable to keep them separated and have an "oops" litter. To me that is still being irresponsible and not an oops.

As someone who personally knows 3 of the top Pyr breeders in the USA, and each of them with high recommendation s, expectations for their breeding program and the absolute best intentions for their breedings, even each of them had an oops or almost oops (meaning they bred, but no pups) litter. I would say any reputable breeder who has been at this breeding thing for more than 10 years has had an oops litter or got very close. Does that mean they weren't responsible? NOt to me. It means accidents happened. Someone didn't shut a gate. Someone didn't lock a door. One dog I know of jumped through a glass window to get to a female in heat. Things happen. Even the best breeders have it happen to them.

(See my above post about the difference between good breeders and oops litters and irresponsible dog owners and oops litters.)
Marissa

Zoey- Alaskan Malamute, 4 years
Dolly, CGC- Saint Bernard, 4 years
Foster mom to Clarence- Basset Hound, 5 years

"To be loved by...any animal should fill us with awe-for we have not deserved it."

Offline vmimom2006

  • Leader of the Pack
  • **
  • Posts: 406
    • View Profile
Re: To Spay/Neuter...or Not? What do you think?
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2008, 03:22:10 am »
Well if you are a breeder that is one thing but if you do not plan on breeding your dog it should be spayed/neutered. PERIOD! All of my dogs have been spayed/neutered. I do not wish to breed my dog in any way shape or form! I do not wish to go through blood lines and all the tests or vet bills. I am amazed by those who do it and I'm sure it is wonderful to see you babies that you created do well in the show ring etc but it's not for me. I'm very glad there are responsible breeders out there who take all the time and consideration to create wonderful dogs for us though.
Mom to:
Athena 20 month Blue Great Dane
Aurora 5 yr Blue Merle Great Dane
Baby Tux cat-RIP 6/9/09
Mandy & Millie 10 yr sisters tabbys
Wheet 9 yr black shorthair devil cat
Lucy Lu & Buckley 8 month kitties

Lyn

  • Guest
Re: To Spay/Neuter...or Not? What do you think?
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2008, 03:41:37 am »
Bubba was neutered 2 months after his 3rd birthday. Hubby didn't want to neuter him at first. But.. Bubba was getting super territorial and just throwing around his testosterone "pushy intact male syndrome". LOL Plus keeping weight on him was a nightmare. He looked like an anorexic Saint Bernard.

It's been 7 months since the neuter and he's much more layed back and it gaining weight finally... he'll be 4 in less than 4 months. Plus he's now friends with the neighbour he had a hate on for... mind you I still can't stand the guy, LOL

Overall he's just been much easier dog to live with.

Lola is next.. But I'm nervous and have cancelled 2 spay appointments for her. :-[ As soon as I book the appointment my anxiety starts and builds and builds until I cancel it. I need to step up and get over my fear before she has her next heat which is Dec/Jan. I don't want to go through another heat but yet the surgery part terrifies me. I don't want to deal with either of them. LOL

I had a kitty die during a spay so I think having Lola done is just bringing back those memories. I'll never forget that phone call. :'( That's probably why the majority of our pets are male. LOL

Sorry I'm rambling. Can you tell I'm thinking about making Lola another appointment?  :(

Offline FurTornado

  • Gnawer
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: To Spay/Neuter...or Not? What do you think?
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2008, 04:50:34 am »
I understand the nerves. Females go through much more than the males. My mal gets spayed today. I was nervous until I got there. It is much better for my household and knew it was best decision for her.

Lots of vibes for you and your girl. You aren't the only one that gets nervous for your babies.
Owned by a Weim, Dobie, Mal, and Sheltie!

AudgePadge

  • Guest
Re: To Spay/Neuter...or Not? What do you think?
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2008, 05:18:21 am »
When I posted originally, I wasn't talking about breeders, or overpopulation-However, I completely agree with Julie, Tina and everyone else who believes in spaying/neutering pets.

There really are SO many "oops" litters - reputable breeders to the "I don't know how it happened" pet owners... Point is, it can happen to ANY unaltered pet, and it shouldn't!  I think to be a reputable, responsible breeder, you should have the resources and facitlites to separate your dogs effectively so these "boo-boo's" don't happen.

I'm not a breeder, nor do I intend on breeding- Lucky for us, we have the means to contain our pup until it's "his time"  and we're also lucky to have a place where no other dogs can get in (not like they'd want to!)  :P

We're waiting until Roscoe is fully mature (3 years ish), until then, we're taking all precautions to keep the ladies out, and our man in!


It's been 7 months since the neuter and he's much more layed back and it gaining weight finally... he'll be 4 in less than 4 months. Plus he's now friends with the neighbour he had a hate on for... mind you I still can't stand the guy, LOL

Overall he's just been much easier dog to live with.



BTW- Lyn, how long did it take Bubba to recover??  Monty took a good 8-10 hours before he got out of bed (bad reaction to the anesthesia), Ramses...about 30 minutes!  Is it different for the big guys?
« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 05:20:57 am by AudgePadge »

Lyn

  • Guest
Re: To Spay/Neuter...or Not? What do you think?
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2008, 05:30:37 am »
When we first got home he layed around for about 3-4 hours, but he was still glassy eyed. :D After that he moved a bit slower but was fine otherwise. :D I was expecting him to be down and out for alot longer. He acted more upset that I left him than anything else. So I got the cold shoulder for a couple days. LOL

Offline maxsmom

  • Leader of the Pack
  • **
  • Posts: 467
    • View Profile
Re: To Spay/Neuter...or Not? What do you think?
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2008, 05:34:57 am »
As far as anesthesia recovery goes, it is different for each breed and each dog.  My Caucasian was drugged for Xrays of her hips and knees.  She wasn't totally out, but  enough out 3 of us could hold her relatively still.  It took 3 days for her to be back to herself.  After 24 hours she could walk relatively well, still kind of wobbly, but walking.  She was urinating on herself continuously for 48 hours.  She had a horrible reaction to the drugs they used and they only gave her the minimal dosage.
Kathy
Max  2 Irish Wolfhound
Jake  2 Great Pyrenees
Cody   3 Tibetan Mastiff
ChiChi 1.5 Caucasian Ovcharka
John and Nicki Maine Coon cats

Offline People Whisperer

  • Supreme Drooler
  • ****
  • Posts: 1975
    • View Profile
Re: To Spay/Neuter...or Not? What do you think?
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2008, 06:15:04 am »
I completely agree. Also, maybe you have too many intact dogs as a breeder if you are unable to keep them separated and have an "oops" litter. To me that is still being irresponsible and not an oops.

As someone who personally knows 3 of the top Pyr breeders in the USA, and each of them with high recommendation s, expectations for their breeding program and the absolute best intentions for their breedings, even each of them had an oops or almost oops (meaning they bred, but no pups) litter. I would say any reputable breeder who has been at this breeding thing for more than 10 years has had an oops litter or got very close. Does that mean they weren't responsible? NOt to me. It means accidents happened. Someone didn't shut a gate. Someone didn't lock a door. One dog I know of jumped through a glass window to get to a female in heat. Things happen. Even the best breeders have it happen to them.

(See my above post about the difference between good breeders and oops litters and irresponsible dog owners and oops litters.)
Well it is irresponsible to me! If you are a breeder you should have a kennel to keep females intact AWAY from males or Kennel a male with someone else. You don't just not lock a door or a window while having a male and a female intact.
The dog you know who jumped through a glass window to get to a female DID IT TWICE a year apart. The breeder was lucky enough that
females didn't get pregnant but the fact that she let it happen TWICE tells us something, doesn't it? 
That is why it is important to spay and neuter...if you can't be 100% responsible
« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 06:16:53 am by People Whisperer »
"To once own a Great Pyrenees is to love and want one always."
Mary W. Crane

I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it :)


Offline patrick

  • Paw-meister
  • **
  • Posts: 560
    • View Profile
    • Great Pyrenees
Re: To Spay/Neuter...or Not? What do you think?
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2008, 03:44:02 pm »
Saying a responsible breeder would never let an oops litter occur is something like saying a responsible driver would never let a car accident occur.  Even with all the precautions in the world an accident can occur. To say not is to truly underestimate the tremendous instinct of animals to procreate.  If you want to be 100% sure then your dogs should be spayed or neutered.  That is the only sure way to prevent unwanted litters. 

Viking Lady

  • Guest
Re: To Spay/Neuter...or Not? What do you think?
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2008, 04:08:35 pm »
Boy....I am trying to digest all this info because I had planned to have Luke neutered at 1 year. Actually, our vet was willing to do it at about four months and when I told her that I thought you were supposed to wait, she basically said "not any more." This came up in his first couple of visits when she was gathering info on her new patient. She asked if I planned to breed him. Then she mentioned getting his dewclaws removed because she worries about them getting caught on things and ripping. I had read on Pyr sites when I was still deciding on what kind of dog to get not to let a vet talk you into getting them removed. She said they should stay on if I was going to show him.

Anyway, all of this was postponed as I mentioned that he got sick with Parvo and then had a small tumor removed, which was benign. The tumor was removed quickly, as it was getting bigger, and that was before I learned on here about Pyr's sensitivity to anesthesia. I assume she knew that or we were fortunate. But now with the other things coming up I guess I need to make sure she does know it.

My reason for neutering is possible aggression issues and because I don't plan to breed. I am wondering now about the issues with hip dysplasia.(sp?) And what about dew claws? Oh me.........

Tonda

  • Guest
Re: To Spay/Neuter...or Not? What do you think?
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2008, 04:15:00 pm »
If the dew claws are attached you're probably ok leaving them on, but if they're detached, they're going to catch on everything and rip. I wouldn't put your baby under JUST for the dew claws, but if he's going under for something else, I'd have them removed.