Prong collars

[GR8DAME]

I use a prong collar on all my dogs when out in public. I consider it power steering. Without it, Raven pulls like an alaskan sled dog in the traces; with it she is as sedate as an old plowhorse. Merlin will take you for a walk that you'll never forget without his prong. As long as he has it on my 90 pound daughter can walk him with a piece of dental floss. Strider has never used any other collar, he is too strong and flighty for me to trust anything else. I only use the prongs when we are walking on leash, and rarely have to employ them with the older two. They know that they are on, and behave themselves accordingly. IMHO any collar is only as good as the person holding the leash.
Stella

[lins_saving_grace]

I have an alternative suggestion. 
I have a prong collar and don't have to use it anymore.
I take the leash...hook it to Lady's and Grace's collars like normal...then wrap the leash around their waists and run the end through a loop.  when they pull or jump...I pull on the leash which tightens around their tummies and they stop what their doing instantly.  Better than the prong collar in my opinion.

[VdogLover]

How many of you use a prong collar?- I have been using prong collars and recommending them to clients whom I feel dogs need them for over 15 years.

 
Plastic or metal?-Metal although I am ordering a few plastic ones to try out.

 How many think it's an awful device and wouldn't think of it?-
I use to think this way until taking a class with an animal behaviorist who explained the collar and the right way to use it.

If you use it, is it all the time, just for exciting places, or just for training and you'll use something else later? -
No training collar should be used all the time. If you have a dog who is wearing a training collar just around the house (like some trainers say to do with head halters and a drag ling) then you are using that collar as a crutch to the relationship. I use prongs only when training my dogs the heel and recommend it on dogs who's owners could not walk the dog otherwise until they feel safe removing it. They are however instructed to remove it when reentering their home.

What about Gentle Leaders or Haltis, and if you use one because it's more "humane" does your dog get happy when they see it or do they try to get away? -
I believe in looking and watching with open eyes when any new training device hits the market. Since if marketed right  any device can be made to seem humane. This is what I did when Haltis came out. By watching dogs in them I could see the change in body language and see the risk of serious neck injuries. This change in body language and risk is what has made me decide they are not a tool that fits my type of training therefore I do not use them. I have given advice on the use of them to people who have truly aggressive dogs.

Anybody use any other "devices"?
 For training not really for taking hikes with my dogs I use a harness since when not in heel I allow them to be in front ...they make getting up hills so much easier:)

[Kermit]

A lot of people comment on how halti-leads or gentle leaders can hurt a dog's neck/vertebrae.
But I have never heard of this happening in horses, and in fact I'm pretty sure a halter is the only way to lead a large animal. So what is the difference? Are horses being injured by halters and nobody is talking about it because they don't have any better ideas?

If anyone knows why a head halter would be bad for a dog but not bad for a horse I would be very interested in finding out why.
 

[BabsT]

Horses and dogs are very different in my opinion...one is a prey animal and the other is a predator...I am not against them but someone told me one time which made me chuckle...you dont see a prong on a horses neck LOL

I really dont know how you would give a correction with a halti or a gentle leader...I think with certain breeds might supress a large dominat type of dog vs. correcting the actual issue

I remember at the vet one woman had a gentle leader on her golden...the whole time the dog fought that thing...

I also see a lot of seeing eye dogs with both a harness and a prong on its neck...it is all very interesting but i think it boils down to what works best for you and your dog

I know for me a gentle leader would stress my dog and a prong he does just fine with...I can walk him on a flat just fine but he has his prong just in case

[Anakalia]

I use a prong collar for Koby when we go for walks.  He's been trained with a prong collar so when it's put on he knows what to do.  He doesn't pull at all so I know he's not getting pinched, but it's because he knows if he does pull he will get pinched.  He weighs so much more than me and he's 100 times stronger than me so the prong collar was the best choice for us.  I've heard really bad things about a choke collar so I've never used one of those.

Andi

[SwissysRock]

I use a metal prong collar on Riley.  I can't take him out without it or else he'd pull my arm out of the socket.  Around the house, he just has his regular collar, but when we go out, I have to use the Prong.  And I agree with Shangrilarcadi a - Riley get excited when he sees it cause he knows he gets to go outside.

[Rachel]

I've been using a choke on Sophie but after reading all these posts I think I might try a prong.   She is great on a leash.  I train loose leash walking by turning and walking the other direction once she starts pulling. After one or two turns she gets the point and is perfect for the rest of the walk.  What I need the control for is the chasing small animal instinct.  Cats are the worst!  it does not matter  what kind of collar she has on (flat buckle, choke, halti, or harness, I've tried them all) she is still jumping in the air and pulling on the leash to try and chase after it.  So I guess I will try the prong next.

A little off the subject but....
She has actually pulled me to the ground trying to chase something.  It was late at night she had just finished going potty and then boom she was off running like a bat out of h*ll.  I found myself face first on the ground and pulled a couple of feet.  It was either let go of the leash or break my fingers so I let go of her.  She ran down a couple of houses and I ran inside a mess, crying and trying to explain to Nick that the dog ran away.  We both went back outside and called her and she came right back (which was amazing) but man I was pissed!  I have no idea what she saw that made her that excited... probably a rabbit or cat.   She usually will stare at whatever she wants for a minute and then i can distract her before she chases it  but this time caught me totally off guard...

[LaurieW]

Miko & Dona used to pull like that when walking...made for some interesting walks when they saw squirrels or rabbits!  People who saw us walking used to comment how the dogs were walking me rather than me walking the dogs - sometimes I wished I knew how to use roller blades so they could tow me along!   Most of the time I just let them be dogs while walking and do that, but there were also times when I needed & could get them to stay by my side.

When Miko was a puppy, the teacher of the AKC puppy class told me to use a choke chain, and then told me to get a prong collar - he thought Miko was just too strong & too strong willed to be trained without them.  I hated both.  So did Miko.  I stopped using them the day I came home from a walk & took the prong collar off Miko & found cuts all around his neck where the prongs had bit into his skin.  I sat down & cried & appologized to him!  From then on we trained like mad with positive reinforcement.  No choke chain ever and definitely no prong collar.

I realize that there are dogs that are just too strong & strong willed and that need the prong to help them behave...and if Miko could've pulled me flat on my face while trying to chase a rabbit, I probably would've had to go back to the prong....but I was ever so glad that he responded beautifully to training and that I didn't have to use it.

[Anky]

Its kind of funny actually, Sanity (The giant) is on a slip/choke collar for walks just because every once in a while his mind isn't on me and a pop takes care of it.  Hobo's (The dog that was bred to pull) on a flat nylon collar, and Araby (the 30 pound dog who's breed is supposed to be SOOOOO obidient) has a prong.  It's so funny when she has it on I have to laugh at her.  Honestly though, we don't take Araby out much.  She's awesome off lead, absolutely amazing, but put a leash on her and she goes crazy. 

We tried the gentle leader with her and after the 10 minutes they said to have it one she was still bouncing off walls and scrabbling at her face, making it bleed.  (Don't think  badly of me here, they said no matter what they do to leave it on, and I didn't notice the blood at first because she was moving so fast).  Later I tried just leaving the GL on her with no leash attached and she acted like a beat dog, she was miserable and acted like we were gonna hit her.  I did some research and the BIGGEST difference between dogs and horses is that a horse is a prey animal and a dog is a predator.  Their concepts of body language are different.  To hold a dog on it's muzzle is a form of discipline, think of if you were being disciplined constantly for not even doing anything.  It's a way of "Breaking the dogs spirit", much like when taming a wild horse you beat the crap out of it till it's so tired it can't kick you off anymore.  On an uber sensitive dog like Araby this was torture.  I know that many dogs do well with the halter collars, but I know others that, even while they behave on them, they're absolutely miserable the whole time. 

Side note to Rachel.

Sanity pulled me ONCE, at my parents house.  My mom, who isn't very smart, brought out the kitten Sanity had found in the woods so that "He could see how much she'd grown."  I told my mom that it wasn't a good idea because the thing is still wicked tiny (Size of a 6 week old and she's like 3 months now), and it's obviosuly scared of Sanity, and Sanity'll just want to play.  Well my mom says that she can't be afraid of him because he saved her so she has to learn to love him.  K........  Well the kitten gets within 3 feet of Sanity (In my mom's hands) and spazzed out, hissing and swatting, so Sanity barks at it.  Then the kitten pees all over my mother.  Tee Hee.  I decided to leave but of couse Sanity is now riled up and the minute we leave he sees the other cat, and while I'm saying good bye to my mother he takes off like a shot.   I get dragged and finally stop both of us by me slamming into my dad's car.  WHEEEEEEEEEEEE EE!!!!!!!!


Ang

[VdogLover]

If anyone knows why a head halter would be bad for a dog but not bad for a horse I would be very interested in finding out why. >>>>

 First I will point to the structural difference of a horse and a dog. The muscles of a horses neck are much stronger then that of a dogs. They are not even in the same class of animals one being prey and one predator. There was recently a Veterinarian who posted a study of the risks of dog head halters giving in scientific difference between the two...however I do not have that study as of now... I will be looking for it to post.
 
Second there are horse owner who do not use halters they use basically what is a very large buckle collar. Why?? I'm not sure have they also seen injuries caused?? Maybe its just their personal pick?? Maybe their horse had a past injury that are trying to protect??
 
People also use bits, whips, and nose/chin chains on horses (and many now who do not) why is this?? Should we use them on our dogs?
Stupid question huh??
We don't since we do not need to try and control an animal that weighs over 1000lbs we are trying to control a dog which in most cases weighs far less then the owner.
 
  On another forum just yesterday a vet tech who all she used was head halters wrote to say she had seen her first broken neck from a head halter...she wanted everyone to know she was wrong in her first statements that they would cause no injury. If she will grant me permission to cross post I will do so.

[GrumpyBunny]

Ranger has been on every collar known to man. 

He pulled too hard on the flat collar and the "regular harness". 

The prong collar worked great with him, and he was very easily controlled on it, but this was around the time that he was going to a special class to help him be less reactive to other dogs, and, of course, as soon as the trainers at our Humane Society saw the prong collar they said we needed to get it off him immediately.  Dogs were only allowed to come through class on either a Gentle Leader-type head harness or the Sensation Harness.  Still, I liked the results we got with the prong, and after several years of using them while teaching obedience, I felt comfortable in my ability to use it effectively without hurting a dog.

Tried both the Gentle Leader AND the Halti.  No matter how much we acclimated him to them, he would NOT get used to them.  He would throw a tantrum and fling himself to the ground, dig his face until it bled, and rub his face on EVERYTHING.  Whenever anyone would stop to pet him, he would even rub his face frantically on them as if to ask them to take it off.  He just never got used to it.

Tried the no-pull harness.  He didn't pull too bad on it but it rubbed raw patches on his shoulders.

Finally, he is now on the Sensation harness.  He can pull on it relatively hard if he really wants to, but I feel I have pretty good control over him.  Plus, he is learning to "walk nice" and doing pretty well on that.  I do sometimes long for the prong, though!

I think, like the food issue and many other issues we have encountered, it all comes down to works best for you and your indvidual dog.

[Newf Lover]

Those collars look painful and mean, but I guess for some breeds it's a necessity.  Drake doesn't lunge at other dogs or people or pull on his lead, so I don't need to use one.  I don't feed him anything I wouldn't eat (aside from kibble), and I don't use anything on him I wouldn't want used on me.  Did that come out right?     Uh, you guys know what I mean.

[Leah-n-boy-os]

I tried the Gentle Leaders, but was not happy with the results on Apollo. I read all of the instructions, watched the nifty DVD that came with. The directions said that they might * fight* the Leader for the first few times, but that they would generally get used to it.


Yeah, right.


Apollo got so spazzed that he was literally rolling in somersaults trying to get the bloody thing off his snout. This happened for 6 straight attempts to use this thing. I was afraid he'd break his damn-fool neck trying to get it off. The look of utter misery and defeat in his eyes made my heart hurt. He was whipping his head from side to side with such violence that I let go of the leash so that he wouldn't snap his neck like a twig.

I threw the piece of crap in the garbage.


I have a metal prong collar that has little rubber caps that slide on the prongs. This keeps the metal from his skin, and makes the prongs so big, there's no chance of a puncture. It can be made large or small by just adding or removing links. He loves the thing, and as soon as he hears it jingle, he comes running to take his "walkies". His head and tail are held high, he responds to the slightest of controls, and I can see from the posture and the look in his eye that he's happy. That's more than enough for me.

I don't like the "choke" collars for all of the previously mentioned issues. I feel safe with the prong collers, and I know that my boy-os are happier as well.

Do they look menacing? Yes, they do. Sometimes that works both for, and against us. You get the reactions that "Oh, that big Dog is obviously vicious, they have to use that horrible collar to contain them". Great, that simply means one less idiot will come running up to tell me that my dog's a menace, or attempt to stick their hand in his mouth and claim Apollo tried to attack him. (yes, it *has* happened, and I was raging furious about it. Luckily, there were witnesses to the incident, and there were no reprucussions.)

On the flip side, you will also get those who have a brain, see that you have control over your pup, and come over to greet and ask questions. They look at the collar as a sign of safety. I'm more than happy to have the boy-os loved on, and I encourage folks to ask questions. I may not know the answers, but I can usually tell them right where to look!

Hmmmm, any chance that we can get a drool bib, or a collar made with the BPO logo and website url on it? I'm all about advertising this forum to folks with big kids, or questions. It would be really great to take it a step further. Maybe even a leash?

[GrumpyBunny]

Those collars look painful and mean, but I guess for some breeds it's a necessity.  Drake doesn't lunge at other dogs or people or pull on his lead, so I don't need to use one.  I don't feed him anything I wouldn't eat (aside from kibble), and I don't use anything on him I wouldn't want used on me.  Did that come out right?     Uh, you guys know what I mean.

Yeah, the prong collars really do lool like they are some weird S&M device.  But, used properly, they really shouldn't be painful.  Before I ever put one on a dog, I used it on my arm - HARD.  Even a flat collar can be painful and damaging if used incorrectly. 

I would love not to have to use anything special with Ranger, but I don't really have that option right now.  He came to me with issues, and one of them was that no one ever taught him to walk nicely on a leash.  Until I work with him via training to the point where he can reliably loose-leash walk, I need a little extra help.  As I say, he is doing well, but I can't promise he won't try to take off after a cat or tuck his tail and try to bolt if something unexpected really scares him....  He can pull pretty hard at only 100 lbs, and not only do I not want him to get away from me, I don't want him to hurt himself.  I can only imagine how hard some of these larger guys can pull...

This is what the sensation harness looks like.  It is a chest-type harness where the least actually clips in the front of the chest.  (His leash is in the back in this picture, cause he had his other "regular" harness on as well - he had just been in the car, and that is his "seat belt".)