I HATE people like this

[BabsT]

They person that the thread is about shouldnt own a stuffed animal nevermind a dog...I am very passionate about working breeds and preserving them is key...If I came acorss as harsh my apologies but a properly trained dog with a Sch, PSA will protect but a pet is a gamble...

I have serious rare breeds, a female CO and a male CAO and they put on the worlds greatest show...would they go the extra mile, I have no idea so I cant say they would protect me until I get them evaluated when they are mature

[hugo~monster]

here my opinion on this.  the guy who is buying the 5 week old pup is going to raise this dog unsocialized (probably already raised the other one this way), with no manners, no teaching, probably wont even provide proper nutrition or shelter for the dogs.  what makes him think the dogs are going to even have the mental stability to protect him??  unstable temperments definatly is not a good thing for a big powerful guard dog.  the dogs are liable to turn on him!  he is too dumb to realize this though-good....maybe they will show him.  not that i would wish anyone to get attacked, but it would be poetic justice...

i would contact the authorities-aspca, local police, even contact some local kennel clubs to see if they might direct you on what can be done.  you can also see what organization the dogs are registered to.  akc themsleves does investigations on abuse, improper housing or paperwork, etc  on any akc registered dogs.  might want to check into it.

[Lyn]

All I can say is wow.. those pics are amazing. Balou is gorgeous.

[Senghe]

I think the key is properly trained by a professional ...... not like the fools we were talking about.

You're not kidding - this joker sounds like he can't control his own bladder, never mind a rottweiller. I've met a couple of Sch titled GSD's and they are great dogs with superb temperaments. This is what they should be like, not what these poor rotties are going to end up like.

You know what I do with my Tibetan Mastiff puppy to make him a BETTER guard dog and personal protector? I take him about and introduce him to as many people and situations as I possibly can. Far from making my TM a big softie like 99% of people who meet him think he is, it's actually giving him the chance to learn who is friend and who is foe. There's a very big difference between a good natured dog and soft one. I tell you now he's only 10 months and he is very confident and perceptive - if I take him out and I'm not sure of somebody or they are acting abnormally, he's well aware of this and gives them the eye. If I didn't socialize him by letting anybody who asks pet him, he'd be a VERY dangerous dog at 2 years old.

Can I just say that not all breeds are suitable for even professional protection training. Shar-Pei are no good because they enjoy it too much and think they know best, so won't necessarily let go when told. I suspect a TM would be the same. I'ts not that they're unstable in any way, it's just that what makes them tick is quite different than a lot of breeds.

[Proliant]

I assume that a fully stable temperment is a prerequisite for SCH or PSA training. The dogs that this ..... well lets call him a man for the sake of argument .... has/is getting will certianly not be stable in any way after the kind of treatment they are likely to endure from him. Hopefully they will at least get fed correctly (but I wouldn't bet on it since he seems to be showing a complette lack of concern for the welfare of the dogs). It is just another reason to license the owners, not the dogs.

BabsT - do you have any links to information regarding SCH/PSA? I would find it interesting to read up and learn a little about how these dogs are selected, and the characteristic s that make them appropriate. I am quite sure that it would never be my cup of tea, but knowledge never hurts.

Thanks,
Matthew

[BabsT]

Of course there are some breeds better geared toward certain types of 'work' and typical LGD's wont do a long send and arent high on consistant OB but it can be done with a select few and in Russia the CO's are used as guards and military dogs.

My CAO is 1yr and he does have a distrust of strangers and he is probably the most socialized dog in the world...Machin e shops, sheetmetal shops, oceans, schools, playgrounds, elevators, crowed NYC hotel, escalators, guns clubs, walking on strange surfaces, opeing umbrellas, loud noises, petstores, long car rides, parks, camping and had more people handling him as a pup.  One thing he didnt do is seek out attention from people outside his family...ppl could pet him but he wouldnt look for you to pet him.  and still without a proper introductions, you couldnt just go up and pet him.  I let people pet him when they asked but I personally dont like random people handling my animals. 

My female CO she is only 25wks old and very much a puppy in so many ways...but I met her momma LOL

A dog that is unstable, weak nerved, fearful etc...would never belong in sport training....a most of the time, the pups go to their new handlers at 6wks so they dont go through puppy pack dynamics

Watching a dog and handler perform in any type of work is such a beautiful thing to watch...whethe r it is a seeing eye dog, a shepherd  and his LGD,  police dog, bomb detection dog etc...it is amazing watching the two work together

Here are some links

http://www.germanshepherddog.com/

http://www.leerburg.com/schusa.htm

http://members.aol.com/malndobe/frring.htm

[Proliant]

Those are really interesting links. It has taken me a while to read through the info there. I guess a truly well trained dog can be a real deterent to danger.

Neato!

I like my dog as he is, but it is pretty cool to see what can be done with time care patience and training. I would say that this is not something for the average dog or owner.

Thanks for the info BabsT.

Matthew

[Newf Lover]

I don't care what excuses or explanations are given about having a well trained attack dog.  You might as well have a well trained Bear.  The potential for disaster is so huge and god forbid a child is mistaken for an intruder.  As a kid, I got chased by many a dog and I don't know what would have happened had I not been on my bike.  Does it take a tragedy to get someone to rethink the benefits of having a dog with that kind of aggresiveness?  It's understandable to want to have a dog that will alarm you of intruders or a dog that will be a visual deterrant to muggers, but specific breeds will do that naturally.  Animals are animals and restrained ferocity is a time bomb waiting to go off.  Just ask Roy Horn, of Seigfreid and Roy fame. 

Also, our country is lawsuit crazy and if you have a potentially agressive dog, you are just asking to get your butt sued for every penny you own.  Can you afford that?    Buy a gun if you're so worried about your protection, the Second Amendment allows you that luxury.

[Anky]

I don't care what excuses or explanations are given about having a well trained attack dog.  You might as well have a well trained Bear.  The potential for disaster is so huge and god forbid a child is mistaken for an intruder.  As a kid, I got chased by many a dog and I don't know what would have happened had I not been on my bike.  Does it take a tragedy to get someone to rethink the benefits of having a dog with that kind of aggresiveness?  It's understandable to want to have a dog that will alarm you of intruders or a dog that will be a visual deterrant to muggers, but specific breeds will do that naturally.  Animals are animals and restrained ferocity is a time bomb waiting to go off.  Just ask Roy Horn, of Seigfreid and Roy fame. 

Also, our country is lawsuit crazy and if you have a potentially agressive dog, you are just asking to get your butt sued for every penny you own.  Can you afford that?    Buy a gun if you're so worried about your protection, the Second Amendment allows you that luxury.

The thing about having a trained attack dog is that they are trained to be under control.  They're safer than a typical family pet who isn't trained to restrain itself.  The difference between a DOG and a TIGER is that a TIGER is a wild animal.  Dogs aren't.  And trust me.  I'm a gun nazi, and If I had to chose between one to defend me I'd pick the dog.  A mugger can't take your dog and use it for their own advantage. 

[Newf Lover]

I don't care what excuses or explanations are given about having a well trained attack dog.  You might as well have a well trained Bear.  The potential for disaster is so huge and god forbid a child is mistaken for an intruder.  As a kid, I got chased by many a dog and I don't know what would have happened had I not been on my bike.  Does it take a tragedy to get someone to rethink the benefits of having a dog with that kind of aggresiveness?  It's understandable to want to have a dog that will alarm you of intruders or a dog that will be a visual deterrant to muggers, but specific breeds will do that naturally.  Animals are animals and restrained ferocity is a time bomb waiting to go off.  Just ask Roy Horn, of Seigfreid and Roy fame. 

Also, our country is lawsuit crazy and if you have a potentially agressive dog, you are just asking to get your butt sued for every penny you own.  Can you afford that?    Buy a gun if you're so worried about your protection, the Second Amendment allows you that luxury.

The thing about having a trained attack dog is that they are trained to be under control.  They're safer than a typical family pet who isn't trained to restrain itself.  The difference between a DOG and a TIGER is that a TIGER is a wild animal.  Dogs aren't.  And trust me.  I'm a gun nazi, and If I had to chose between one to defend me I'd pick the dog.  A mugger can't take your dog and use it for their own advantage. 

Touche Anky, but let me ask you this, Why does it say on the outside of K9 units : POLICE DOG, STAND BACK?  Because if one of those "trained" attack dogs snaps and gets ahold of you without it's handler around, it could very well kill you.  You are right that dogs are domesticated animals not wild animals, but they have many of the same abilities those wild animals have of inflicting some serious damage.

[Anky]

Touche Anky, but let me ask you this, Why does it say on the outside of K9 units : POLICE DOG, STAND BACK?  Because if one of those "trained" attack dogs snaps and gets ahold of you without it's handler around, it could very well kill you.  You are right that dogs are domesticated animals not wild animals, but they have many of the same abilities those wild animals have of inflicting some serious damage.

My Uncle was in the military and then a cop and now a prison guard.  They tell you to stand back because they're worried about the dog.    People are stupid around dogs.  Especially working dogs.  Think of the guards at Buckingham palace.  People go out of their way to be obnoxious to see how far they can go.  They can only take so much.  If you want to get down to it, all of us should live in bubbles.  Shouldn't have cars because stupid people drive like idiots and kill other people.  Shouldn't paint your house a certain color because it can give someone seizures.  Shouldn't use the toaster because we can electrocute ourselves.  Shouldn't go drinking because there can be a man much bigger than you that could beat you up.  I'm sick of making excuses for stupid people.  My dog is FAR from an attack dog, but I respect the people who DO have the ability to train their dogs to a level far above anything I ever will. 

[Newf Lover]

True, people really are stupid and the lawyers are out to make sure they get paid for their stupidity.  Aside from that I still don't think anybody outside of law enforcement or the military REALLY needs an attack dog.  It's just trouble waiting to happen and you can make all the excuses you want but that is a FACT.  They are animals, not machines that can be turned off.  That's why I like having a Newf.  He's big and aggressive enough to scare the bad guys off, but I don't have to worry about him getting out and ripping the faces off the neighborhood kids. I guess we'll just agree to disagree on this issue.

[Proliant]

I like to check out all kinds of stuff ..... reading makes life interesting and helps to make a more well rounded person. Therefore I enjoyed reading about SCH, but I wouldn't trade my love bunny for anything else.

Matthew

[Anky]

It just frustrates me that you say that the dogs are dangerous.  I explain that they're LESS dangerous than a pet dog, they you say that look at the warning sign on police cars.  I explain that and you still say that well no one needs them.  I would like you to do some research since you're so fervent about this.  Find me a dog attack from a dog that was trained correctly in SCH or another protection discipline.  You won't find it.  You'll find idiots who said their dogs were protection dogs, and trained them themselves, usually with abusive techniques.  You'll find unstable pets that snapped, or dogs that were harassed until they couldn't take it anymore.  But you won't find a properly trained protection dog attack case that wasn't asked for.  They don't exist. 

Perhaps you don't see the reason for someone to have a dog like that.  I don't understand a guy needing a 42 inch plasma flat screen.  But hey the guy wants it.  One of the biggest joys in life is to give your dog a job and work with them at it.  Not all dogs are suited to herding or agility or flyball.  But they're perfectly suited for protection work.  Should this dog suffer a life of boredom and frustration, making it a ticking time bomb?  Like I said, untrained dogs, are MUCH more dangerous than the trained ones.

[Newf Lover]

Whatever, stick to your guns.  I don't have the time or inclination to try and dig up some SCH trained dog mauling story, but I'll just take your word that its a rarity.  If that's what you like to do with your dog, that's your right.  But don't expect everyone to agree with you.  Like I said before, dogs are animals, not machines.  They can have all the training in the world and that fact will never change.  Accidents happen.... 

And as for the guy needing 42 inch plasma TV, although it may encourage a sedentary lifestyle that could eventually lead to morbid obesity and a crippled social life, I've never heard of one killing anybody.  Unfortunately, I've heard of lots of dogs that have.

I think the point of this thread was that there was another tough guy idiot, (one of those stupid people we were talking about) who was planning to breed attack dogs.  Those kind of people are becoming way to common and I think you need to be careful when you promote your SCH training.  Some people aren't disciplined enough or smart enough to understand what exactly that is and assume you are just training your dog to be a badass.  It's cool that's what you want to do and I can respect that, but it's not anything I think I would want to do.  I don't think I could live with myself if a dog I had trained ended up hurting or even killing an innocent human being.  That outweighs the satisfaction of knowing my dog could take out any bad guys at my command.