Author Topic: Advice on Border Collies?  (Read 7612 times)

Offline cincbcat

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Advice on Border Collies?
« on: December 05, 2005, 09:47:18 am »
We are interested in looking for our next dog soon.  Sadie is 8 months and is starting to act less puppy-like and more dog-like (thank goodness).  We want her to have someone to play with, so we were thinking of a border collie.  I am asking for advice from anyone who knows these breeds.  Can Pyrs and Borders work and play well together?  We'd be willing to take either a puppy or a rescue.  I know they are extremely intelligent and trainable.  If anyone has recommendation s for another good match for a Pyr we're open to suggestions too.  I already tried for another Pyr, but hubby put the ax to that plan.  :-(
Thanks!!
Rachel

Offline BabsT

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Re: Advice on Border Collies?
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2005, 09:57:01 am »
I personally feel that the best match for an LGD is another LGD.  LGD's are so unique in the dog world...that is why i base my opinion
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GR8DAME

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Re: Advice on Border Collies?
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2005, 10:08:05 am »
Border Collies are great dogs, but a bit difficult due to their high intellegence, energy and drive. That and their awesome speed/flexibility is the reason they do so well in agility. But if not kept busy, they can be a destructive handful. I just helped rehome an incredible BC bitch whose only crime was bordom. She was home alone most of the day, and when anyone tried to play with her she would literally bounce off the walls. The family felt she was too hyper...
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Offline LaurieW

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Re: Advice on Border Collies?
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2005, 10:37:42 am »
My Lucy is probably a border collie/pyr mix (could be aus. shep mix too?) - she gets along great with the pb pyrs that I have.  She does have lots of energy, is very smart, very willing to learn & train, and very loving.....I would recommend a bc to anyone & would suggest you look for a rescue dog first - there are so many that are great dogs & need a good home.
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Re: Advice on Border Collies?
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2005, 10:46:30 am »
They are escape artist! In my old neighborhood there was a bc that always got out and everyone was nice enough to catch him and put him back in his yard. They are full of energy and I'll agree with everyone else that they need something to do.

Offline Perdi's Mom

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Re: Advice on Border Collies?
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2005, 10:49:17 am »
I had a border collie, Aussie mix.  She was VERY intelligent.  Knew most of her commands by 6 months and never forgot a thing.  She was very willing to please me except for one thing: she felt she was too dignified to ever walk on a leash  ::)!  I couldn't get her to do it to save my skin, but she was extremely obedient so I did not have to worry about her going anywhere. 

They are high energy dogs.  If you can devote a substantial amount of time to them for play and obedience training, then you will have an excellent dog.  They do like to run and so until you are sure that they'll always 'come' and stay with you, you'll have to leash them.  They normally get along well with other dogs as they are pretty happy dogs.   Give them a job and they are happy, teach them to fetch the paper, slippers, etc...they are great dogs, but people have a tendency to misunderstand their needs and then can't cope with the behaviors they end up having because of boredom.

Good luck!
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Offline Moni

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Re: Advice on Border Collies?
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2005, 11:46:30 am »
Having a BC/Sheltie mix that is basically ALL BC, I'd definitely recommend this site and its recommended links.  :)

http://www.gis.net/%7Eshepdog/NABCRN/Breed.html

Border Collies are not for the feint of heart.  lol  They need something to do 24/7 if you let them.  One of the most important things you can teach a BC is a "chill out" command, otherwise they usually won't until they're about 15yrs old.  ;)  I love my Zeo, but she is a spaz, even with training and me being home all day so that she gets ample play time.  The females especially can be control freaks around other dogs and kids and you want to be careful where you get one from.  There are lines that are overly shy and skittish.

They learn super fast, but this doesn't mean just tricks!  lol  That means they can learn bad things just as fast.  An example, when Zeo was a puppy she was horrible at jumping on people.  So I decided to use a clicker to teach her to keep her paws on the floor.  Well, she learned that if she ran and jumped on someone, then sat down she got a treat!  LOL  Needless to say we used body blocking instead.  She was a step ahead of me that time!

So my advice is do a lot of research and then go meet a lot in person before you decide.  Agility trials are a great place to see them in action, and in inaction.  You can see how wired they are when they're waiting for something to do.  ;)

Don't get me wrong, they are great dogs.  However,  they are a lot different then your average dog and a lot of people love them because they are flashy and smart.  Unfortunately though,  a lot end up in rescue or driving their owners insane because of their other personality quirks.  ::)

Are you set on a BC?  What type of dog are you looking for?  What do you want to do with the dog besides be a playmate?  Good luck with whatever breed you decide on! 
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Offline Nina

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Re: Advice on Border Collies?
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2005, 12:00:26 pm »
I have a border collie Pry mix. And until he hit the 1 yr mark he drove me nuts. LOL But I love him. He was so high energy, so we played fetch a lot. Now the Pyr is starting to set in and he is much more layed back but he gets the zoomies once in a while, which is halarious.  Anyway, border collies are great dogs, if you do get one I recommend getting into flyball or agility with him/her and that would help with the high energy. Good luck.

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Offline tanimara

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Re: Advice on Border Collies?
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2005, 12:41:32 pm »
Rachael,

I think you might consider some more time here.  For one thing.  You have no idea of your dogs character yet as she is just a puppy.  You will see a completely different dog one day when you wake up.  You will just wake up one morning and wonder where this strange dog came from.  If she were mine I would wait another year at least so you can better judge her character and a better match for her new companion to be.  If you cant wait, then you need to get her another Pyr or some type of livestock guardian.

Jackie
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Offline BabsT

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Re: Advice on Border Collies?
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2005, 12:53:12 pm »
I agree...I have two Lgd's LOL

I got Anchara in August and Zero was about 10.5 months old but i knew that he would love love love a companion and they are great with each other.  I truly feel that best playmate for a LGD is another LGD
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Offline Scootergirl

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Re: Advice on Border Collies?
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2005, 01:33:00 pm »
As the owner of an aussie, which is basically the same as a BC, I will agree with what everyone has said about their activity level and need for a "job". However, I have found with ours, that the job doesn't have to be something specifically energy-consuming. Rocko's job is to keep Johann company when he drives. He is alert to the road when driving (when he's not snoozing) and protects the truck when Johann is out of it. This consumes his energy as he is always on "alert" status.

When he is home, he is either in the house with another dog and the cats or in the backyard with several dogs who he is "in charge" of keeping in line.

However, that challenging first year is still engrained deeply in memory. We brought him home very early and he was so calm and cuddly - for about a week. Then, when teething began and he started exerting his independence - YIKES! We lost a windowsill in the process and he became a champion stomach-vaulter!

However, after the training took hold and he learned appropriate behaviors, he is the BEST dog!! I think most BCs or herding dogs like that would probably try to become the alpha in the household, especially with a sweetie like Kiah, so you have to be prepared for that possibility and decide if you want to help her establish the alpha or let the roles play out. We let them play out and everyone seems to have settled into their place just fine.

Anyway, a short suggestion made long - if you decide to go with the border collie, I would suggest adopting an older model rather than one just off the showroom floor. I think it will be easier on you not to have to deal with the "crazy year" and just the integrating and personal training.
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Offline Moni

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Re: Advice on Border Collies?
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2005, 01:38:58 pm »
Haha  That's too funny Jeanne!

That's true, aussies are a lot like BC's.  I think the main difference is that aussies are more protective and have an off button.  lol  God, I love those aussies!

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Offline Scootergirl

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Re: Advice on Border Collies?
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2005, 01:40:51 pm »
I never thought of it that way, Moni, but you are right! Rocko didn't start getting protective 'til he started riding with Johann thought. Isn't that weird? He used to let anyone in the yard or the house without caring. Now he runs to the door and barks like he's going to kill them, but he's really just afraid they are going to steal his frisbee 'cause as soon as I open the door he runs out, grabs the frisbee and runs into the yard to play!
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Offline NoDogNow

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Re: Advice on Border Collies?
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2005, 05:09:28 pm »
My sister has a 6 month old BC. 

He is a fiend. 

He is the fiendiest puppy I have ever known.   She calls him Motocross; I call him Demonspawn.  Why she got him, I'll never understand--there were BC's at one of the dairies my grandad worked at when we were kids, and she knows what they're like!

He has utterly corrupted her shepherd mix Squig, who is almost 2 now, and used to be a reasonably good dog, for a girl whose mom worked full time and whose dad drives OTR 6 days a week.   She was neither a digger nor a house tearer-upper, until the fiend came.  She never even TRIED to get out of the yard until the fiend came. 

Now, my sister comes home from work and finds them OUT of the yard at least once a week. He's almost...Siber ian...in his determination to escape.  He can't be left in the house, he's chewed thru three crates and can open the refrigerator--OH, yes, he loves to make a mess.  He also has a taste for underwear.  And he rarely shuts up.  The neighbors hate him.

None of that is irremediable.  BUT, and it's a really King Kong sized BUT...

You have GOT to have a LOT of TIME and a lot of energy to work with a BC.  Demonspawn has my poor sister worn to a frazzle, and I don't know how she's going to survive.  She may have to give up and send the creature to my mother; Mom's retired and has time to deal with his behind.  Maybe when he's, like, 12, my sister could take him back.

My experience with BCs is this:  if you have HOURS, and I mean HOURS, to spend working with pup, really focusing on obedience or specific jobs and keeping pup challenged all the time so that they don't have any chance to get bored, then a BC might be the pup for you.   But you HAVE to watch them every minute, at least at this stage of the game.  And this stage of the game lasts from 9 weeks old until about 10 minutes before they keel over from old age. 

But if you have to work to support your dogs, I'd look for a breed that's a little less...driven.  If you really want a working breed, I'd go a little bigger than a BC and find a really good German Shepherd line (not easy) or maybe find a Shiloh Shepherd breeder (lots better oversight of their breeding lines than Germans from what I can tell researching them.)   Shepherds are just as smart, just as much fun, and will play all the same games as a BC, but in my experience, they're much more patient and forgiving with you, and behave better on their own while you're out earning the food money.   

I have a number of friends who have or have had shepherds, or shepherd mixes and once they're beyond the puppy stage which is challenging no matter WHAT breed you get, my observation is that they're a lot more trustworthy behaviorwise than a BC.  With the shepherds I've known, if they get bored, they'll generally take a nap, rather than tear up the couch or dig you a new pool. 



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Offline Anky

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Re: Advice on Border Collies?
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2005, 05:50:57 pm »
At my training center there are SCADS of border collies.  They aren't bad as long as they have a job, BUT like Moni said, they have no off button.  They come in from a day of herding, and instead of laying in front of the fire they bounce around looking for something else to do, which is why sometimes they fixate on reallly weird things like herding hairballs.  They're PERFECT for what they were created for, but not really in the strict pet sense.  Their intensity is so honed it's almost scary.  If she's not going to compete with the pup forget it.  That's my honest opinion.
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