ADVICE @ PETRA??? HELP!

[smohr]

YOU ARE ALL THE BESTEST! 

I'm not upset and I appreciate the wisdom, advice, warnings and acceptance I have found with this group.  When I ask for help you are all here for me and are honest and straightforwar d with me.  When I need objective advice you are all willing to help every time I ask.  THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH.

This guy has NO CHILDREN.  The side of the apt. complex he lives in allows no children (his few friends he has left after the shooting don't bring kids when visiting) and all dogs must be muzzled when walked.  He realizes the liability & training issues.   He stated what he really needs in Petra if she can be trained is her companionship and HEARING.  He has hearing aids, but cannot hear very well.  After being shot in the left side of his neck, he lost hearing in his left ear and most in his right ear.  I told him Petra barks at the door handle being turned or a window being opened.  I would hope it could work out and I plan on talking to him again before I make up my mind.  His wife is also in some kind of police work and has been shot at too, works 12 hour shifts and he has been on disability/ temp. retirement for awhile.    [/b]

[Nicole]

I'm not into beating a dead horse or anything...

It sounds to me like Petra is in greater danger of dying from a gunshot wound with this guy than anything else. Who is this guy, a Miami Vice cop? It just sounds so sketchy to me.

Honestly, my biggest concerns about this whole thing as I read all the posts were this guy's credibility. If he needs a dog to HEAR, he could get any dog. He doesn't need a demonstratedly unstable, potentially lethal dog. He could get a chihuahua for hearing.

I agree with Anky and....I can't remember who said it first...that this guy sounds like he just wants a cheap guard dog, and not even a guard dog at that...a hearing dog. Maybe I'm naive, but if this guy has so many death threats, and potential for getting shot, maybe he should be like, in witness protection or something.

I'm sorry, Smohr. I'm not trying to be insensitive. I know that you love Petra and have been through heck. I can't give you good advice. I've been in your exact situation before. It ended with my dog biting a crackhead, me getting sued, and my dog getting put down by animal control.

I won't comment on how I feel about unstable dogs making good pets/guards/companions/hearing dogs...I just want to say that its a truly painful and scary thing when your dog hurts someone. Both for you, the victim, and the dog. He had to spend 21 days in the Animal Control holding area (cold, dirty, little food, NO CLEANING OF HIS KENNEL) while the investigation was under way and he awaited his death. I'm not trying to be brash, I'm not trying to freak you out. I'm just saying that the combination of all these factors don't sound good to me. The guy sounds like a fruit with a big ego. And, my experience has been its better to let an unstable (TRULY unstable, not just "troubled") dog go peacefully than risk it.

Its just my experience, Smohr. I would have advocated the cop take the dog in a HEARTBEAT if I had not been through this before and had the agony of my dog hurting someone...I don't envy you and its very painful for me to even THINK about what you're going through. Good luck.


*edited to say* Oops, I guess I did comment on how I feel about it. Sorry...
*edited again to change H-E-Double Hockey Sticks to heck*

[Anky]

Something I was thinking of in the car that bothered me about the whole police officer situation (I'm NOT saying he's a bad guy, I just have issues with some comments he made and the way he's going around doing this).

The main thing is he said he wants an aggressive dog.  Aggressive dogs do NOT make good guard/protection/attack dogs.  Dogs with DRIVE do.  There is a HUGE difference.  Aggressive dogs have no restraint, no self control, they'd go to anger management classes if they were human.  Dogs with DRIVE are guys like Walker Texas Ranger, who're calm and full of self control but can snap you like a toothpick if they have to.

Also the comment he was looking at rescues and shelters really bothered me.  This is the WORST place to look for a dog for this kind of work.  You need a dog that hasn't had issues with the world at large, that you KNOW it's history, that hasn't had the world kick it.  You need a clean slate.  Honestly I'm kind of worried that he's even looking at places like this for a dog that is so specialized.  Once again not saying he's a bad guy, just misguided.

[nickerbokker]

smohr, i'm so sorry that you are going through this and have to make this decision!  looking into the eyes of a baby that you love, and one that has created so many great memories and thinking about not having that anymore is one of the toughest things EVER.  u did a great thing by getting petra (anyone who takes a rescue is an angel), and you have given her a wonderful try.  you've been through good times, and you've been through bad times, but you still love her no matter what and i thank you for that.  you are a great person, and you WILL make the best decision.  there are great arguements on both sides, but what it comes down to is you.  she is your baby, you know her best, and you will make the right decision for her safety and comfort.  i have nothing to say for either side of this issue other than YOU and YOU only need to figure this out, and we will be here for you and respect you for whatever you decide.  petra is a great dog that just had all the odds built up against her, but i trust that you will do what is right for her, no matter what it is. 

[Stephanie]

I am certainly not a neo expert but something I just wanted to add that I have learned in doing research on neos is that they are already guard dogs, it is in their nature and I have read that any further guard dog training done on a neo can be extremely dangerous and should NEVER be done. Just something I though was important.
Good luck in you decision.
Steph

[Leah-n-boy-os]

I guess what it boils down to, is what is Petra's Quality of Life going to be like in this situation?

It doesn't sound like she's going to get any kind of help from this bloke for her problems, and putting her in this type of situation might aggrivate the issues she's already trying to deal with.

I dunno hun, but this whole thing sounds very peculiar, and I know quite a few folks in the law enforcement community that recommend you be very suspcious. Just because a fella says he wears a badge, does not make him one of the good guys....

[my3dogs]

smohr, i'm so sorry that you are going through this and have to make this decision!  looking into the eyes of a baby that you love, and one that has created so many great memories and thinking about not having that anymore is one of the toughest things EVER.  u did a great thing by getting petra (anyone who takes a rescue is an angel), and you have given her a wonderful try.  you've been through good times, and you've been through bad times, but you still love her no matter what and i thank you for that.  you are a great person, and you WILL make the best decision.  there are great arguements on both sides, but what it comes down to is you.  she is your baby, you know her best, and you will make the right decision for her safety and comfort.  i have nothing to say for either side of this issue other than YOU and YOU only need to figure this out, and we will be here for you and respect you for whatever you decide.  petra is a great dog that just had all the odds built up against her, but i trust that you will do what is right for her, no matter what it is. 

Well said.

[Winslow 151]

Hi,

Wow now this thread has gone to quoting what the "ex cop"said. I missed his posts.

Look Smohr has enough to think about with Petra, She is talking to the "ex cop" she is talking to the protection trainers, and her vet  at this point our thoughts on motives of anyone involved in Petra's future are not of value to Smohr, what more can she do and for those who think he should be put down I have not read anything where that was not still in the solution.  Let Smohr and her family get through the Holidays with the hope they want to hold and this will all work out for everyones best interest come the new year.

Lets not assume everyone has an evil streak. It is the holidays, Lets assume, the Ex Cop is a nice guy and Petra is destined to serve in this capacity.

That is my hope. 

[nickerbokker]

Hi,

Wow now this thread has gone to quoting what the "ex cop"said. I missed his posts.

Look Smohr has enough to think about with Petra, She is talking to the "ex cop" she is talking to the protection trainers, and her vet  at this point our thoughts on motives of anyone involved in Petra's future are not of value to Smohr, what more can she do and for those who think he should be put down I have not read anything where that was not still in the solution.  Let Smohr and her family get through the Holidays with the hope they want to hold and this will all work out for everyones best interest come the new year.

Lets not assume everyone has an evil streak. It is the holidays, Lets assume, the Ex Cop is a nice guy and Petra is destined to serve in this capacity.

That is my hope. 

THANK YOU, well said

[Anky]

Hi,

Wow now this thread has gone to quoting what the "ex cop"said. I missed his posts.

Look Smohr has enough to think about with Petra, She is talking to the "ex cop" she is talking to the protection trainers, and her vet  at this point our thoughts on motives of anyone involved in Petra's future are not of value to Smohr, what more can she do and for those who think he should be put down I have not read anything where that was not still in the solution.  Let Smohr and her family get through the Holidays with the hope they want to hold and this will all work out for everyones best interest come the new year.

Lets not assume everyone has an evil streak. It is the holidays, Lets assume, the Ex Cop is a nice guy and Petra is destined to serve in this capacity.

That is my hope. 

Assumptions are a dangerous thing.  Assumptions that not everyone has an evil streak is what got me sexually assaulted and thrown on the street.  People need to hear bad things to keep everything in perspective.  I know I don't want Shelley to feel guilty and I dont' want that at all.  At the same time, I know that I would want realistic opinions.  Like Babs said, some things can't be sugar coated.  I, Nicole, Babs and Jenn and everyone else can voice our opinions because they were asked for.  I'm all for giving dogs a second chance.  But to tell us to assume that it's all going to work out, when there's a big chance it won't, and if it doesn't the results could be disastrous, that just makes no sense to me.

I just posted about how BPO is a friendly place where people can come for advice no matter what.  But the thing is, sometimes the world isn't a happy go lucky place, sometimes the dogs can't be saved, and someone has to say it.

Shelley is going to do what she feels is best and I wish everything I can for her.  But she asked for all opinions.  Whatever she decides it's going to be hard for her.  We can say whatever we want and it's still her decision.  I just think that she deserves to here all sides as opposed to just the Care Bear versions.

[nickerbokker]

we shouldn't assume everyone is bad just as we shouldn't assume everyone is good.  i'm sorry to hear what happened to you, but should i walk down the street in fear now?  or should i never trust another man in my life?  we need to be AWARE that there are good people/ bad people, good situations/bad situations, good luck AND bad luck.   

i don't think everything in life should be sugar coated.  i also think opinions should not be pushed and forced, and when asked one time, i do not think you need to speak your case  35 times.  when someone tells me something, i take it in.  if i like it or hate it, if i decide to use it or not, is up to me.  by asking someones OPINION, i am able to hear it and make my own choice....i do not have to make THAT choice.  and i also do not want to hear their opinion or different versions of their opinion (as if i did not really get it the first time) for the next 2 weeks.  when i ask and you tell, it is over, thank you, move on.  if i ask you again, if i ask for more detail, or if i ask you to make the choice FOR me, then so be it. 

this ex-cop...who knows.  i don't know him, i know very little about him.  actually, i only know about 1 paragraph about him.  i haven't spoken to him on the phone, i don't have a daughter who knows him, i haven't talked to others about him.  i only know what smohr told me, which is exactly what she told you all.  how you can draw out that he is evil and lying from 1 paragraph baffles me.  no one knows this dog, or this situation like smohr, and for everyone to draw these cray ideas and conclusions is crazy to me.  i understand there is evil, there is also good.  we don't know what this situation or man may bring, but let's let smohr do her reasearch on this guy if she thinks it is a good option.  what is it going to hurt?  it's her choice. 

the only thing i know is that the BPOers fighting and scrapping in this post IS NOT helping smohr OR petra.  this little petty crap does not matter.  so lets all stop.  i think plenty has been said in this thread already. 

anky---dude, this post wasn't directed at you either...just a general post k?

[smohr]

  You know, come to think of all this (and it's made me think) this guy doesn't have a lot of money to get a dog like he wants and his friends are willing to help him out w/training, but it is kinda shady about his situation. 

My daughter met him while working w/an attorney for the officer.  He had some kind of case in a lawsuit.  She said he's a nice guy, but what do you really know about someone you meet while working for an attorney?  She kept in touch w/him because he became friends w/one of her friends.

Maybe I've been looking too hard for a "savior" for Petra. 

Let me sleep on this...write this down (visualize.)  I'll read and re-read these posts. 

Thanks guys and gals.  This is the best group of dog lovers I know.

Sherry

[Scootergirl]

That's what we're here for!

And, remember, we all know you have Petra's best interests at heart. It's difficult to see clearly when your heart gets in the way sometimes. I applaud you for carefully looking at all angles of the situation.

[Winslow 151]

Hi Sherry and all,

Yes there are bad people and pets, Yes we need to be aware of the bad that can happen. I am sorry for anyone who has or had to live through "bad things" THAT SUCKS.

I do not live in a "Care Bear world" and those liitle bears kind of freak me out anyway;-).  I don't live in a musical, comedy or a drama either.

I just wanted to point out that Sherry has physically spoken with all the possible characters they may impact hers and Petra's life. I think she is capable of deciding what is best and she is doing a fabulous job!!

All our opinons have made her think that is good!! I still believe it will all work out for the best, sorry I'm an optimist on that.

Sherry sleep well on your thoughts, and as has been said, buy 5 pages of posters you are supported by all BPOers and we will be here for you no matter how things turnout.

Rich

[newflvr]

Sherry,

Please, sleep well.  You are in Petra's corner no matter what.   I think you just need rest and to put your arms around Petra and just try to sort stuff out.  The goods and bads have been well stated.

Okay....I'm done babbling now!

Good night, Sherry and Petra...sweet dreams!