Author Topic: Stupid In America?????  (Read 10051 times)

Offline my3dogs

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Re: Stupid In America?????
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2006, 11:05:06 am »
This one will be short, I promise. Both of my kids are involved in club hockey. My son has been heavily involved (as much as 5 days a week with some ice time, games or practices) since he was 4, my daughter is happy with 3 nights a week. They are not dropped off and forgotten. Every practice, and game has been attended fully by either Dale or myself or both of us. They have manners, standards, excellent work ethics and morals, instilled by parenting, not schools, or peers. The other things that they have had are the opportunity to travel, learned to get along with people of other backgrounds and beliefs, a team, not "I" mentality, organizational skills, lasting freindships, respect for others and a respect for authority, whether it be coaches or just adults in general. These are things that can be taught, but to be understood they need to be lived. They are not on drugs, have never had any issues with the police, and you can dress them up and take them anywhere. At this point, if you asked my son, who is ineligiable to play next year because of his age, I know he would tell you that he is devistated. He has already been in contact with some of his buddies from other teams that are in the same boat about getting a group together for rat hockey, just to stay on the ice. Sorry, I don't see a downside here.
Stella

Well said Stella. 
I agree.


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Offline moonlitcroatia

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Re: Stupid In America?????
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2006, 11:21:18 am »
Maybe change the "n" in "in" to an "s".

This form of capitalism runs and ruins everything. I think the mentality is that if it is not a big money maker let's not provide it. In a way I think the things that are offered in this country, both products and leisure, are made-out to be supply and demand when in actuality the corporate world manipulatively controls what consumers "think" they want and need.

In the "town" that thinks it's a city where I live they don't even have PE as a mandatory class for junior high and high school kids. The boys are afraid to dress down in PE because they think it is "gross" to change in front of their peers for fear someone may think they are GAY. Oh my!

There is a lot about American culture that makes me sick. So sick, in fact, that as I get older (and I am not very old) I simply want to avoid all of the hype. There are some times where I wonder if I can just abandon all of my crap and live with aborigines. There is no freedom in the fact that we cannot go to the local pond and form an ice hockey team. What local pond? If there is one chances are it is not available for anyone to utilizes - probably for fear of a lawsuit. We have to go through the capitalist route, the formal method and take what is provided or find some big corporation to sponsor us.

Sorry, I guess I'm in a hateful mood.  :o
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Offline newflvr

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Re: Stupid In America?????
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2006, 12:24:36 pm »
f there is one chances are it is not available for anyone to utilizes - probably for fear of a lawsuit

Thank the lawyers for us!  So many of my kids friends are graduating from college now with not a clue what they are going to do....and not ready to grow up so they are going to law school!  What hope does that give us for the future?  I'm concerned that this generation wants a longer and longer adolescence!  "If I stay in school, I won't have to go to work!"  What's wrong with my generation that they won't set limits???  We always told our kids that they had to do well in school and be civilized not for us but for them! The better they did, the more choices the had.  The more civilized they were, the more doors would open for them!

I completely agree with parents taking the responisibilit y for raising kids.  If you don't want the responsibility for the full (at least!) eighteen years, don't have a child!

Offline Newf Lover

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Re: Stupid In America?????
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2006, 01:32:17 pm »
We don't have kids yet but we have made a plan for their education once we have them.  We probably will send them to Private School from K-8th grade, but we will send them to Public High School.  This is for several reasons, number one we want them to start out with a good base and that will be easier to instill into them in Private school.  Good morals, great core study skills, safe environment.  The current Grammar school system here in California is way to Liberal and just crappy overall.  Once they have that good base to work from, they would be better prepared for Public school.  Private high schools are great, but the main difference with that place is you have more spoiled kids with money to burn and that can lead to trouble.  We want our kids to be socially ready for College, if they go, and Public school is a good way for them to find their way.  Home school, regardless of all the arguments some of you have made, retards childrens social skills among their peers.  Yes they might see some kids from time to time at Church or social events, but they don't get as many opportunities to develop the important relationships that so many of us had with our childhood friends.  Many of the homeschooled kids that I have met, although they are very bright, they are socially retarded.  No parent is ever going to admit that, but it's the truth.  Those kids just don't have the sports teams, the school bus rides, playtime at recess, etc. etc.  It doesn't mean that they can't learn social skills as they go along, they just have to work harder.

Where am I going with this?  I guess I'm just reflecting that there is no right or wrong way to do things I guess.  And with the huge push towards college these days, people need to realize that not everybody is "college material".  Just because someone does poorly in school doesn't mean they have a learning disability, they may just have a lower IQ and just not a scholar or they're just stupid.  Blue collar jobs are looked down upon and white collar jobs are put on a pedestle as the only way to go.  Plumbers, Electricians and contrators make INSANE amounts of money and those jobs require no college education.  This world would go nowhere without laborers and people need to realize this.  There is no shame in getting your hands dirty. You may not be smart, or have a college education, but you're being productive and making your own money.  That's the most important thing.  Can't wait to get started once I have a kid, it's going to be interesting.
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Offline Anky

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Re: Stupid In America?????
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2006, 01:34:35 pm »
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Offline Newf Lover

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Re: Stupid In America?????
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2006, 01:48:26 pm »
I admitted it.  :)

http://www.bigpawsonly.com/index.php/topic,5795.msg74068.html#msg74068

Thank you Anky, thanks for sharing your own personal experience.  Like I said, no parent who homeschools their kids is going to admit that it retards their social growth, but it does.  They just don't get to make their own friends, it all seems so controlled.  Kids need to learn or build many thing on their own and the parents need to loosen the reigns a bit. 
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Offline Good Hope

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Re: Stupid In America?????
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2006, 09:40:23 pm »
I admitted it.  :)

http://www.bigpawsonly.com/index.php/topic,5795.msg74068.html#msg74068

Thank you Anky, thanks for sharing your own personal experience.  Like I said, no parent who homeschools their kids is going to admit that it retards their social growth, but it does.  They just don't get to make their own friends, it all seems so controlled.  Kids need to learn or build many thing on their own and the parents need to loosen the reigns a bit.


I'm sorry, Newf Lover, but you are dead wrong.

Homeschool children do not act like most children who attend public school and many private schools as well. They socialize with children of all ages not just of their "age group," most are MORE polite and well mannered. They are not as concerned with the lastest fashion trend. They will go through a period of wanting to be liked by all, but it is short lived in comparison to what most children experience going to school. Drugs, knives, gangs, guns, and sex at school are not an issue, so less worries for the children. Each child is different; they are not cookie cutter little adults, and they need to be given what is necessary to help them develop mentally, physically, and socially.

I am concerned that you are confusing interaction with their "peers" with true social skills. Isn't that the ability to have a conversation, work well with others, be well mannered and polite, use good table manners, etc., etc., as well as the ability to use logic and reason, not to prejudge others based upon attire, race or other? Use morals and virtues to develop character? How many homeschooled children do you know? How many adults do you know who were homeschooled growing up? (Sorry, Ang but you seem anything but socially retarded now.) Anybody out there go through a shy or awkward period when you were in school? I do not think that anyone did not go through a period in junior high or high school during which they had trouble getting along with others. And how many people that you work with and socialize with are your age? I can honestly say in the 25 years I was among the work force, I cannot think of a single person my age that I ever worked with, they were older or younger. Do you find it easier to get along with someone "your age" or someone who challenges you intellectually? Most homeschool children tend to make friends with someone who either shares their interests or challenges them intellectually . So who exactly are these childrens peers? Why is it so important to have children socialize with children their same age? Why, according to you, can they not make their own friends? Unlike children in regular schools, they are not forced to develop friendships with those in their class(es) or be ostracised. Parents can control their children's friends to a certain degree when they are in regular schools also, so if you are trying to say that homeschooled children's friends are chosen by the parents, that does not make a difference. In either case, you cannot force two children to be friends when they do not want that, and, in both situations, parents can exercise some control over their children's friendships.

If your main point is that parents have more control over their children when they are homeschooled, you are exactly right. We control not only their curriculum, but their development of moral and social skills. We do not rely upon a teacher, a coach, or their peers to teach them these things; we do it ourselves. There was a time in this country when parents did all these things and teachers taught the three R's and reinforced the other. That's not the way it is anymore. With the world the way it is today, with no set of clear moral and social values, I think that extra parental control is a GOOD thing. Unfortunately, many of us live in areas where this no longer is possible in the school system.

I will be off the board for a few weeks but will post research to back up my statements. I'd truly be interested to understand what information you have that has lead you to make such a statement. Ten % of all school age children are homeschooled in the US. Something to think about.

Deena

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Re: Stupid In America?????
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2006, 10:58:10 pm »
I am sorry that you have such a poor opinoin of the normal, everday people like me, Deena. I have taught my children proper manners, social skills and morality. Not a coach. teacher or their peers. I make no judgement on you and the way you choose to raise your children and I expect the same courtesy from you. You do not know my children, or anyone elses here and to assume that they are somehow less "good citizens" than yours is unfair and preduditial, on your part. Just because they attended a public school and learned to cope with society today does not make them amoral , antisocial, pathological sociopaths. There are alot of good kids in school, but you never hear about them. My children know how to say no to drugs, they have done it; they know how to handle racism, they have done it; and they can and will defend themselves , they have done that as well. But I will defend them against narrowminded self riteous bigots.
Stella