How much does breeding & raising dogs actually cost ?

[horsepoor21]

Hi everyone , I don't want to start any fights or anything , and I'm in NO way implying I want to start breeding dogs for $$$$ . I am just curious  I hear many good breeders say that you can't make any money if you responsibly breed a dog . But I was curious what all the hidden costs must be ? I know you pay alot of money for the best food and of course toys , bones , and all that good stuff we all get our pets . And then there's vet bills . I know things can go terribly wrong , but what if they don't ? And then all the OFA certifications and stuff . And I can see that if you show , well there goes tons of money . But what about the breeders that don't show ? Are they considered bad breeders then ? Like with newfoundlands , people pay up to ( or more ? ) $2,000 for a puppy . And that breeders dog had 10 puppies . That's $20 , 000 . Where does all the money go to ?
wheeew , I'm long winded . Sorry , I'm just curious how it all works ! Thanks a bunch !

[marinafb]

  i kinda wonder the same thing. My one and only dog i got from a breeder was a strange situation. I was looking for a smooth fox terrier i had been through rescue groups pounds SPCA etc before i would ever go to a breeder.A friend of mine told me about a breeder of smooth fox terriers who had a show dog that had a breakdown and they were looking for a family home for him.I called this woman and ask if we could come and see the pup ? so we went on tour to visit this puppy. When we got there they showed us this group of puppys they had and then they showed us the pup that had a breakdown he was already a 1 year old i loved him from the moment she brought him out he was very shy and sad looking. The breeder said you can have him or a puppy it will be the same price my husband said but he is already a year old. She said he was only to be a show dog not a pet! So that only made me want him even more. Well she went into this song and dance on how they don't make any $ from breeding it costs them $ in travel,vet bills food boarding etc. well i don't know about that if you truly are not making any profit from breeding and you are only showing then you must be a winner everytime you show or your independently wealthy. Well we ended up adopting this puppy i paid for this dogs freedom and $ wise i sure paid alot of cash for that dogs freedom which was fine he gave us many years of love and friendship ! Many years after this experience i would never buy a dog from a breeder for any reason there are so many animals that need homes and there are so many rescue groups with akc dogs there should be no reason for it. I know i won't be the most popular person for voicing this opinion but i have seen to much to know in my heart that this is true.I encourage everyone to adopt from the pound or SPCA or rescue groups please !!!!

[Stacey]

Many years after this experience i would never buy a dog from a breeder for any reason there are so many animals that need homes and there are so many rescue groups with akc dogs there should be no reason for it. I know i won't be the most popular person for voicing this opinion but i have seen to much to know in my heart that this is true.I encourage everyone to adopt from the pound or SPCA or rescue groups please !!!!

.
I am not sure why you feel this would be an unpopular statement?
Everyone here is very much in support of rescue and adoption, in fact, many of the BPOers are involved in rescue including fostering dogs until they find suitable homes.  We also advocate and encourage RESPONSIBLE breeding.  I have learned so much from everyone here.  I never thought twice about where the puppies came from or how to find a good breeder before BPO.  When I got Tonka, I thought the breeder was legit because he was registered and pedigreed....I was wrong.  She was nice, but ultimately was a BYB, he had no health certs or guarantees and no contract.  I thought I had done all the research (I only researched my end of caring for a dane, not the breeders responsibility).  I have been very lucky and (knock on wood) Tonka is a picture of health, but I now advocate to anyone talking about puppies to be sooo careful ,thanks to what BPO has taught me.
BPO is very diverse, yes, many of us have purebreeds (from breeders), but there are just as many rescues and adopted babies (purebred and mixed), we have Giant mastiffs, saints and danes down to teeny chihuahuas (I am coming for Smudge ) .
I think everyone will support your decision to rescue and adopt and look forward to meeting all of the family, skin and fur!

[nostaw]

I think there are two types of breeder, those in it for the money and those in it for the love of the breed. The breeder who is in it for the money, does everything on the cheap, cheap food, cheap housing etc. The only place you see their dogs is at their home when you go to buy.

Then there is the breeder who does it for the love of the breed, money doesn't matter, it is the welfare of the dogs that comes first. They are the ones you see at the shows, their dogs are beautifully turned out. (usually looking smarter than they are!) They will talk about the breed all day, they are pleased you have taken an interest and they will travel miles because they want the right mate for their dog. They will probably have several dogs of that breed but will only be showing one and breeding from that one as the others arn't quite right. When you buy from them you get a pedigree and copies of the vet reports on sire and dam as well as the puppy. The contract you sign at the point of sale puts the welfare of the puppy before your rights. They have pictures of the puppies from birth. You automatically know that they have spent time and money on their dogs. You know that the money you pay for your dog will be reinvested in the breed.

So the answer to the original question, "How much does breeding & raising dogs actually cost ?" is as long as a piece of string. If you are a BYB in it for the money, not a lot. If you are doing it for the love of the breed, it costs you more than money, it is a lifetimes work.

Andy Bell & Hovis

[Senghe]

My best friend breeds and shows shar-pei. She has about 10 dogs and reckons she breaks even if she's lucky over a year. She usually breed an average of 2 or 3 litters each year. This probably equates to on average 10 puppies at around £850 each. £8,500 sounds a lot of money but when everything's factored in (food, vet bills, showing etc...) she'll only break even if nothing goes disastrously wrong and she gets several stud fees in for her males.

For a responsible breeder, rescuing your puppies at any point in their life is a hidden cost. From a puppy a few months old that you sometimes have to buy back from the owners to prevent it ending up god knows where, spend a few hundred on at the vet's and then rehome for nothing, to taking back a 10 year old dog and keeping him till he has to be put to sleep due to his age and medical condition.

And if you don't resuce at least your own puppies/dogs, you aren't a responsible breeder - simple as that.

[Teamshredit]

That was explained very well, thank you. Just yesterday I was trying to explain to Chip the difference between a good breeder and the breeder who we saw selling Siberian Husky pups to random strangers on the side of the road(grrrr). This gives me even more insight into that discussion. By the way, if I see that again.....is that legal?

[Teamshredit]

He was at Costco...they were $800. They were very cute, but in an area where most homes have little to no back yard he obviously doesn't give a crap that most of them will end up at the shelter. I'm going to check into that, thanks.

[longshadowfarms]

You're looking at the end result of one large, sucessful litter.  That is actually not normal.  Normally, you're starting a number of dogs and some of them will not be breedable.  So many things can happen along the way to render a dog not suitable for breeding (dysplasia, other health problems, temperament issues, conformation, etc).  Then if everything seems good, the dog may not be able to reproduce and/or there may be difficulties with a pregnancy.  Another cost if your breed has available testing is genetic tests.  http://www.optigen.com/  Here's a long discussion about costs on another forum I frequent:  http://homesteadingtoday.com/vb/showthread.php?t=114503 

Our pup is a great example of a person spending a lot for a dog only to find out later that they couldn't breed him. He was imported from Canada by a breeder here in NY (cost of puppy plus cost of importing) and raised for a number of months by her and then optigen tested (about $200) to find that he carried PRA. If he'd passed that test, she'd still have had to have hips and elbows checked at about age two. It is a lot of $ and a lot of time invested before you can ever hope to breed a dog and many will flunk out for one reason or another along the way. It rots but unfortunately that is reality.

I thought once that I'd be interested in breeding dogs but I know now that I haven't the heart for it. Once a dog comes here, it is here for life. We had a chocolate lab that we had purchased with thoughts of breeding some day. She had bad hips and elbows. She lived to age 14. We had a black male lab (OFA excellent, awesome temperament and looks) many years ago who was bred to two females owned by a vet friend. Our current 13.5 yr old yellow female is his daughter and we did have two litters out of her. At age 7 or 8, this male developed a problem in his spine. We then found that one of his daughters and a grandson also had the problem. Here's a problem that didn't show up until relatively late in his life yet he's already passed it along to who knows how many pups. The realization was sobering to me and is one of many reasons that I sincerely doubt I will ever breed again. I might do it if I could find a breeder I trusted and whose lines I trusted if they would help me get started and tutor me but ... too many buts. I won't say I'll never do it but I have so many things that I would want in place that I doubt it ever will. One look through Petfinders yields a huge list of dogs I'd happily take in rather than start breeding more.

[taijinrr]

Hi everyone , I don't want to start any fights or anything , and I'm in NO way implying I want to start breeding dogs for $$$$ . I am just curious�  I hear many good breeders say that you can't make any money if you responsibly breed a dog . But I was curious what all the hidden costs must be ? I know you pay alot of money for the best food and of course toys , bones , and all that good stuff we all get our pets . And then there's vet bills . I know things can go terribly wrong , but what if they don't ? And then all the OFA certifications and stuff . And I can see that if you show , well there goes tons of money . But what about the breeders that don't show ? Are they considered bad breeders then ? Like with newfoundlands , people pay up to ( or more ? ) $2,000 for a puppy . And that breeders dog had 10 puppies . That's $20 , 000 . Where does all the money go to ?
wheeew , I'm long winded . Sorry , I'm just curious how it all works ! Thanks a bunch !

hymmmmmmmm
well, there's the cost of championing the mom, ex rays, dew claw removal, stud fee, shots,, health certificates, food, and so on,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,BREED TO MAKE BETTER DOGS,,,,,,,,,,NOT MORE,   selling  pups without all this, yea, thats puppy milling and $$$$$

[patrick]

I recently had 2 litters of puppies and have 8 adult dogs.  Since October I have been spending $800 per month on food alone for this crew.  Cleaning up for the pups takes about 4 hours a day and my electric bill went from $90 per month to $275 per month.  I have no idea what cleaning supplies cost and 2 rooms now need to be repainted and floors refinished.  Vaccines a total of 48 and worming every 2 weeks.  I still have to keep the adult dogs for another year before I can breed again.

Routine costs include vet, heartworm, flea preventative on the dogs and treatment of the ground (1 acre) monthly.  Average vet bills per year around $3000.  Frontline for dogs runs about $90 per month.  Bedding for the dogs, mulch and stone for muddy areas, maintenance of fencing all runs about $1000 per year- that's with me doing all the work.  Various repairs like to roof, water pumps, doors whatever run over $1000 per year as an average over the past 20 years.  Gasoline to go to wherever concerning dogs - runs about $3000 per year.

All of my dogs are champions at an average cost of $2500 per dog to get its championship.  Pre-breeding screening about $500 per dog.  Stud fees $1000 to $3000.  It cost around $1600 to develop the website and several hundred per year to maintain it.  Long distance phone calls are too numerous to count.  Last year I had 2 litters and was only $15,000 in the red. I thought I did pretty good.

[keziahamber]

So it is definately more cost effective to own the stud and bitch... but, if I did this, I wouldn't want to breed too often, perhaps once or twice a year at most... only after the dogs are of a certain age, and only for a few years.  I can definately understand how this could get out of control quickly.  I could also see how this could be done ethically. I suppose if one didn't show, you'd have to be very active in dog welfare to show that you were not a backyard breeder or puppy mill.  You'd have to have really strict contracts.  Also all the tests, shots, vet visits+++ I like the standards shiloh shepard breeders use for example. Please pardon my spelling errors.   

Jody

[CujoandShamus]

Okay on this subject.
Glad the question came up.
I have considered later studding Shamus, but I do not want to ever let the bitch's Owner to just let anybody have them. I did breed labs and found out that you have to sometimes give returns when you are a responisble breeder, I would tell my buyers that I would take the animal back and refund the money if they couldn't handle the breed.

[GreatDanz]

So it is definately more cost effective to own the stud and bitch...

Yes, and this is exactly why you will find most backyard breeders have the stud and bitch both living with them. (This is actually one of the dangers signs that I tell puppy buyers to look for)  Most REPUTABLE breeders will breed outside to the stud or bitch that best compliments the conformation/health of their dog.

[brandon]

 

This was posted on the Newf-L list today and cracked me up:

Dog Breeder's Pay Scale

A man owned a hobby kennel in Texas. The Texas Wage & Hour
Dept  claimed he was not paying proper wages to his help and sent an agent out to interview him.

"I need a list of your employees and how much you pay them," demanded the agent.

"Well, there's my handler, who's been with me for 3 years,  I pay  him $600 a week plus free room and board" The  kennel help has been here for 18 months and I pay her $500 per week plus free room and board. then there's the half-wit who works here about 18 hours a day.  He makes $10 per week and I buy him a bottle of bourbon every Saturday night," replied the breeder.

"That's the guy I want to talk to; the half-wit," says the agent.

"That would be me" replied the breeder.

[cricket36580]

ROFL!!!!  Too true!