Dogs: Pets or Livestock?

[longshadowfarms]

I got an e-mail this morning about a puppy mill going up in our area. What is it about dogs that makes us think they are different than cows? Why is it ok for milk cows to be stuck in barns, never moving out of their stall, often laying on concrete, pushed for production and eaten when they no longer can produce but it is not ok for this for dogs? Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely horrified at this situation. I'm just trying to understand myself as to why I feel this way and what arguments I can make to the town council that is looking at this proposition. First in my mind is the socialization issue. They're pumping these pups into home situations but the pups have not had any socialization. Realistically, this is a consumer problem. If people would stop buying pup from such sources, there would not be such a ready market. I guess I'm just a bit stumped as to how to go about arguing it and also trying to get to the bottom of my own ideas about why dogs are different. That said, I'm not sure how much I feel dogs are different. I buy my milk at a farm where the cows have mats to sleep on, where they go outside to a lovely pasture on nice days (not into a mud pit). When I was raising ducks for profit, they were cared for as humanely as possible and there were people I would not sell to knowing the lack of care they would give the ducks. I guess though with dogs I still have that above and beyond relationship that is a little different yet than with other animals. I'm still not sure how realistic that is or why I feel others should live up to my standards. Help me out here folks! I need sound arguments, not just feelings.

Here are some of the details:
On February 28, the Zoning Board of Appeals in the township of Milo—
located in Penn Yan, New York—is scheduled to decide whether
resident Lavern Zimmerman will be allowed to build a pole barn to
house 150 "breeding stock" dogs. According to a citizen who attended
a previous hearing regarding the proposed facility: "They will be
breeding small dogs (Yorkshire terriers, shih tzus, etc.) in order
to sell the puppies to pet stores. The females will be bred at about
1 year old, 1 to 2 times a year, sometimes without a heat between
breeding, until they are too old for that purpose. Then they will be
euthanized. The males will also be euthanized after they are too old
for breeding. The dogs will be kept inside this metal pole barn at
all times. USDA regulations state that they only have to keep the
building at 50 degrees in the winter, and under 85 degrees in the
summer. All feces, refuse, and carcasses will be put on an outside
compost heap."

[Kiahpyr]

That is so sad! Those poor dogs! Hopefully this can be stopped. It's so a huge puppymill. I'm horrified by this. I can't believe the town will let them get away with it. We need a BPO protest!

[GR8DAME]

IMO, the difference between livestock and dogs is simple. I do not have livestock in my house, they do not live with me as a part of my family. I cannot think of anyone off hand that sleeps in the same bed with a cow. At least not willingly. You want to tick someone off, suggest that their favorite Vietnamese Pot Bellied Pig would better serve humanity as a pork chop, of that their rabbits should be Hausenpheffer(sp). And they are "livestock".
The other issue is that I live in a major city. I buy my milk and eggs and meat at a grocery store. It is trucked in from God knows where.I sign the petitions for better care of live stock when I can find them, because I am sure that conditions at mega-dairies are deplorable. If I had a dairy in my immediate vicinity (as you will have a puppy mill) I probably would be more proactive.  I do not have the time, nor the inclination to track down the Dean's Farm Dairy (brand name) and see how their cows are treated and that they are happy. I wouldn't know a happy cow if it bit me on the butt. I assume that the cows are properly taken care of by government regulations. Naive, I am sure, and I am also sure that tons of people will now jump my case for being hard hearted and plain old stupid. Fine go ahead. They are my rose-colored glasses and I like them.
That being said, I hope the woman does not get her zoning variance. But realize she and others just like her will just set up shop somewhere else legally or not, and perform their atrocities there.
Stella
Edited for spelling

[cuttles/sadieMay]

First of all a mistreated cow wont bite or dismember a human. Cows are not usually socialized. They are often better taken care of than any puppy mill dog. I grew up on a farm and my dad has a huge herd of cattle, and I really dont think any cow could ever love a human the way a dog does, I could be wrong but they just dont have the same human interaction as a dog. Dont get me wrong I dont think any animal should be mistreated but I think the long term affects of bad breeding and poor care is much more damaging to a dog! We see so many unwanted pets in shelters it is sickening. You dont see very many unwanted cows do you???
Carole

[Senghe]

How about because you just eat a cow and don't have to socially interact with it like you do a dog. If a cow is psychologicall y messed up in the head, it's not living in your house and biting your kids or peeing on your bed, so who cares? It makes me sick that people buy these poor babies from puppy mills without thinking of the grotesque misery their money is helping to inflict on millions of dogs. You wouldn't pay somebody to deliberately torture a dog over prolonged period, then kill it, would you? Most people would be horrified if you suggested that's what they were doing, yet the'll happily buy a cute little puppy from people doing just that to the parents of hte puppy they dote on.

I'm surprised how many people in England will pride themselves on stuff like buying free range eggs, but will happily buy a battery reared puppy because they want one like Paris Hilton and they want it now. 

[longshadowfarms]

Actually, I do socially interact with my cows.  We raise all our own meat - beef, pork, poultry.  We eat cows that are socially not acceptable (the mean ones), and we have put down a dog that was not socially acceptable (attacked myself and my kids).  My milk cow was as much a pet as the dogs, she was just not in the house.  I cried almost as much when she died of cancer as I did when I had to put the dog down - the difference was that it wasn't my choice with her, she just died.  I had to make the choice on the dog. Ya'll are giving me some thoughts on how to approach this though so I hope you'll keep the ideas coming.  I think this is partly just rant.  It really upsets me.  I know it goes on a fair amount in our community but this is the largest operation I've seen thus far.  I know the guy who is charged with checking out these operations and he's upset about what the law allows but he's doing the best he can too.  His job is to ensure compliance with the law but he can't do more than the law will allow.  I'm just trying to get my thoughts together and figure out how to attack, trying to figure out which approach will be most successful - an emotional rant or a logical listing of the reasons this is so wrong.

[Kermit]

quote:
"Why is it ok for milk cows to be stuck in barns, never moving out of their stall, often laying on concrete, pushed for production and eaten when they no longer can produce but it is not ok for this for dogs?"

Well I for one don't even think this is ok for cows. I don't think treating animals like garbage is verified in any way, shape or form. I think the meat and dairy industry is an abomination. Sure we are going to eat meat and drink milk but it is not done with any respect for the souls of the animals like maybe it used to be... maybe the Native Americans did it right... but that is a whole other rant and I'm sorry to interupt this one.

[chaos270]

If a zone change is required...com munity members can petition against it and force it to a referendum to be voted on by the general public.(I believe that is what happens for most towns)  Talk to a local newspaper and have them do a report on  what a puppy mill is and what they so baldly stated as their actions would be.  You could even write the article or letters to the editor to each of the newspapers in the region...even try to get a local news station in on it. If you raise enough outcry the town won't dare to pass it cause their jobs are on the line.  So I think bringing it public would go far in stopping it. 

[nostaw]

While the law permits this type of farming, be it chickens, cows or dogs, then it will unfortunately continue. personally I would look at what laws the farm would contravene. If the answer is none, you are probably going to lose whatever.

I personally would be trying for people power to make a difference, I would be speaking to local "pet" owners and vets, local animal food stores etc. while it may be legal to puppy farm in this way, without the support of the local community it is very hard to make a business run. Would the local vets support the business if the local community made it clear they would go elsewhere if they did? ditto for the pet food etc. There are many peaceful ways to get your views across but you must have others behind you. Its a lot of hard work, but start with a petition and posters and educate the local population. with community support it can be stopped, but it needs the community behind you.

I wish you well and the best of luck with your efforts, which ever way you decide to go with this.

Andy

[Mom2Sadie]

I think someone else may have suggested it but can you get a petition going or something. Maybe people from BPO or anywhere else who have experience with rescues from situations like this could write letters?

As for the difference between a dog and livestock, I see your point that no animal should be treated inhumanely, and I agree with that one thousand percent. However, there is no comparison to the bond a dog has to it's family. It's not the same. Yes they are both animals, and I happen to like cows very much, but I'm not going to cuddle up and cry with a cow when I have a bad day. I see your point, and it is a fine line. I hate to see any animals treated poorly, but it breaks my heart when people damage a dog beyond repair and rob it of any shot at a good life, you know?

[Stacey]

I found this:

http://www.everythingsheltie.com/puppy_mill.htm  Basically, a puppy mill can be defined as a commercial, for profit operation, producing large quantities of puppies.  All puppy mills are not the disgusting picture presented by the media, in which puppies and dogs are starving, dying, and up to their knees in waste.  Many are actually very well kept, clean, and well run businesses.  The fact remains, however, that this is just what they are.  Businesses.  The animals are considered livestock, and kept in cages with little or no socialization.  The puppies are sold locally, over the Internet, or to brokers, which provide them to pet stores and other commercial venues to be sold at elevated prices to impulse buyers.  Impulse purchase is a problem in itself.  Many people are unaware of, and unprepared to provide for the needs of a pet.

     Puppy mill breeders are not concerned with adherence to breed standards, genetic health, temperament, or any of the other things that responsible breeders work towards.  They are simply there to make money.  They do not usually offer any guarantees, education, or follow up.  Many are simply a name on a paper.  Registration papers are provided, but may be meaningless.  The American Kennel Club (AKC) is taking steps with DNA tracking, but basically registration papers in regard to an animal are only as reliable as the breeders who issue them.

     Puppy mill breeders follow popularity of a breed, increasing production to meet demand.  When the demand dies, frequently so do the dogs.  Many are put down, others are sold at auction to the highest bidder, some may make it into rescue organizations or otherwise find their way into good homes.   There is no follow up, no home check, no concern of where to dog or puppy is going, or how it will be treated.

[Imani's Mom]

LongShadowFarm s -Just wanted to say I am not far from you, about 12 miles north of Auburn.  When you come up with a plan, let me know what I can do to help.

[longshadowfarms]

Just got off the phone.  The application for the pole building has been withdrawn!  That doesn't mean he doesn't already breed dogs now or that he won't put in more breeding pens, it just means that he isn't planning a new barn any longer.  Working with a friend now to come up with ways to attack this whole issue.  She is calling newspapers to try to bring attention to the puppy mills in our area (we are a lot like Lancaster, PA with their Amish but ours are Mennonites in the Penn Yan, NY area).  People from the Rochester and Syracuse area go out to the country to buy their puppies, mostly from these puppy mills.  People think it is quaint, farmy, whatever.  I have a friend that bought two Labs through these people.  The first had crippling hip dysplasia and they ended up putting her to sleep.  The second was so wild they ended up placing her in a different home.  I tried to tell them...

Anyway, the real problem is the law(s).  That needs to change.  Right now pet stores have to buy from USDA approved facilities. The USDA is a FARM agency.  They are forcing them to be treated like farm animals by regulating them as farm animals.  I'll keep you posted when we figure out where to go from here but for now, this one issue has been resolved.  The question now is how to address it at a national level so that we don't fight these petty little battles here and there.  The whole process needs to be fixed.