Author Topic: Bernese Mountain Chowpherds  (Read 21705 times)

Offline bernerbuddy

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Re: Bernese Mountain Chowpherds
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2006, 05:32:35 pm »
Thanks, Julie, for the links, and I do appreciate your knowledge and experience!  I am concerned about Berner mixes having some of the same problems as purebreds.  As for the rest, obviously I'm not euthanizing any puppies and there won't be any shelters getting my dogs.  Emotions do run high on these issues and I think that's fine because it's coming out of care for animals.  The problems we have as a society dealing with animals are all coming from people who do not share this care for animals, and that is important to remember.  So I can hardly be mad at anyone's remarks, even the most intemperate ones, when those come from someone volunteering her time and effort for rescues. 

I've been to the shelter in Pontiac, Michigan, when I was still mourning my Berner and thinking about his successor--it is absolutely full of pit bull mixes, all refuse from our vibrant dogfighting industry.  The saints at the shelter do not destroy any nonaggressive dogs no matter how long it takes to adopt them.  The social issues leading to the destruction of animal life in this country are complex, but they do come down to thoughtless, irresponsible, or as in these cases really criminally negligent ownership by humans.  The assumptions by many posters that a reasoned decision by a dog owner to allow a particularly wonderful dog to have a litter is the cause of these problems are.. well, I said it before, ideological, and could be thought through a little more. 

cheers
« Last Edit: March 01, 2006, 05:34:55 pm by bernerbuddy »

rickysmom1

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Re: Bernese Mountain Chowpherds
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2006, 05:46:13 pm »
Bernerbuddy... ..The pics of the dogs you're posting don't look any different than what you can find on petfinder.com, petharbor.com etc...etc...et c... You're basically breeding a "mutt" and much like the other breeders of "mutts" on craigslist and other such sites you'll probably charge a pretty penny for them. So with that said, what makes you different from any other back yard breeder? Will you make a potential buyer sign a contract to spay/neuter? Will you take the dog back if there are problems? What about hereditary problems that ALL big dogs encounter whether they are mixed or purebred? Explain to all of us how you're going to be different ?

Offline Senghe

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Re: Bernese Mountain Chowpherds
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2006, 07:52:39 pm »
Quote
As for the rest, obviously I'm not euthanizing any puppies and there won't be any shelters getting my dogs.

How do you know that? Unless you keep every single puppy she has, you can't guarantee that somebody isn't going to dump one of your puppies at any time in it's possible 12 year life span or even worse, breed off that and not care where the puppies end up. And you can't keep them all.

Quote
The assumptions by many posters that a reasoned decision by a dog owner to allow a particularly wonderful dog to have a litter is the cause of these problems are.. well, I said it before, ideological, and could be thought through a little more.

I can understand how much you love your dog and your wish to have more like her. I mean, look at the millionaire who's funding the 'Missiplicity' canine cloning project because he'd like a genetic replica of his beloved spayed pound dog. The thing is, each and every one of us here has particularly wonderful dogs, just like your girl is to you. However, we don't  mistake a 'reasoned decision' for our hearts ruling our heads. I'd suggest you are the idealogical one that could think things out a little more if you think a lot of those gorgeous dogs in shelters that get put to sleep every hour of the day aren't the offspring of dogs just like yours. Not all are abused dogs or fighting pitbulls - many are friendly dogs who are just not wanted as their owners have taken on a cute puppy without thinking it's going to grow up and need training and exercising. They haven't kicked the dog about or fought it, but they've probably got sick of coming home from working 8 hours to find the dog has eaten half the furniture barked it's head off all day through boredom and upset the neighbours. And then there's the dogs that have simply fallen on hard times and their owners just can't keep them due to moving or a divorce etc... And as you well know, most shelters just don't have the time or funds to keep all the really nice dogs that need homes. If you think otherwise, you really are in some kind of denial.

Like it or not, your 'reasoned decision' will directly or indirectly add to the problem. I know you probably think you have very noble intentions, but you need to do a lot more reserarch about canine genetics, think about what is involved in rearing puppies (they don't just pop out like shelling peas and if anything goes wrong, you could end up with a very sick or dead mommy dog, same goes for the puppies and a very large vet bill to pay) and question is it really responsible to bring more innocent canine lives into the world when the shelters are full of dogs that live and die without ever knowing a loving home like your girl is lucky enough to.

I'm not commenting in this thread any further as I feel like I'm banging my head in a brick wall... hey, you don't want to use a lovely young male Tibetan Mastiff? He looks a bit like a Bernese, I can tell you the excellent hip scores of every single one of his ancestors back to the original imports from Nepal 20 years ago - many of these dogs reached their mid teens in age. We could have Tibetan Mountain Chowperd puppies.  ;D 

Don't worry listers, I'm a full continent away.  ;) 

Offline Anky

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Re: Bernese Mountain Chowpherds
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2006, 10:16:26 am »
The problem with Recessive genes is that they lie dormant, and pop up when you have two carriers.  By then it's too late.  You can't possibly know who has what until it's too late.  And when mixing breeds, they aren't all going to carry the same testing info.  One of the few genetic maladies that isn't prevalent in Danes is Central Progressive Retinal Atrophy.  They don't get tested for it, because it isn't a problem in the breed.  However, cross a carrier Dane with a Golden who's passed the test (But is still a carrier), and a larger percentage (if not all the pups) will either have it or be carriers. 

Personally I loathe designer mixes.  I think that they are the utmost selfish act.  To create a puppy cocktail so you get exactly what you want, leaving a litter of puppies (if you're lucky) or hundreds of puppies (if you're not) in the wake.  I don't think people with a lack of in deppth genetics knmowledge should ever breed, show or no show, work dog or no work dog.  With all the recognized breeds (NOT just AKC and UKC) out there, there is probably something that will fit you anyways.  This is all just MY PERSONAL OPINION.

Honestly though have you thoroughly researched all the bad (along with the good) that could come from breedings like this?  Have you thought of the temperament issues (Chows and shepherds are notorious for "iffy" temperaments), or the fact that genetic black and tan dogs typically have immunity issues (One of the reasons that they're more apt to contract parvo than another colored dog).  These are things that have to be considered and weighed if they're worth the risk.  Does anyone else have your "Vision"?  Do you really have the forethought and follow through to create an all new breed?  Or will they just stop with you? 

If you want a website to support you wholeheartedly I can give you a link. 
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