MY BREEDER'S AN IDIOT!!!

[Maggie's Mom]

OK...so we got Maggie from a breeder in Atlanta.  I talked to her, got a feel for her, and felt that she was a good breeder and knew what the he** she was doing.  I posted a few months ago that she had bred a harle to harle after Maggie's litter (Maggie's litter was a harle to mantle), and only had a litter of 3 live pups: a merle; an almost totally white female(but she can hear and see); and a totally white male that is deaf.  She should never have bred harle to harle.  Well, she has decided to keep the white female, and I saw today (on her website) that she plans to breed her when she's old enough!!! WTF???  Is she a total idiot or what?  Am I right, that you should never breed a dog with genetic defects?  An all-white dane is not normal to begin with, but then to turn around and use her for breeding???  What is wrong with people???

[Kermit]

You are right. Your breeder is an idiot. And someone should call the AKC on her because she is WAY against the breeder code of ethics!!!!

[kristi]

You are right. Your breeder is an idiot. And someone should call the AKC on her because she is WAY against the breeder code of ethics!!!!

I agree with doghealer... an idiot! contact the AKC!
-k.

[newflvr]

Is there a Dane group?  Do you know if the breeder is a member?  For Newfs it is the Newfoundland Club of America and there is a sub-group called the Health and Longevity Committee.  They are the ones that monitor that sort of nonsense.  That seems pretty basic to me...that you wouldn't do that kind of a breeding that could directly cause those sorts of problems. 

From what I understand (and I could be totally wrong here...so correct me!!!) the AKC is only a registry...the y do bascially nothing to guarantee the health of the dogs who are registered.  I think you need something with some bite to get her attention!!!  A breed group might make an impression. 

Fingers crossed.....

[Kermit]

Man if Anky reads this thread she is going to be mad!

I did find this link for the code of ethics for the Great Dane Club of America...
http://www.gdca.org/codeofethics.htm

[Gypsy Jazmine]

Is there a Dane group?  Do you know if the breeder is a member?  For Newfs it is the Newfoundland Club of America and there is a sub-group called the Health and Longevity Committee.  They are the ones that monitor that sort of nonsense.  That seems pretty basic to me...that you wouldn't do that kind of a breeding that could directly cause those sorts of problems. 

From what I understand (and I could be totally wrong here...so correct me!!!) the AKC is only a registry...the y do bascially nothing to guarantee the health of the dogs who are registered.  I think you need something with some bite to get her attention!!!  A breed group might make an impression. 

Fingers crossed.....

That is true...Having an AKC registered dog is like your kid having a social security number...Meani ng that AKC registered simply acknowleges the dog exists...Howev er, the AKC does ban unsavory breeders which would make the dogs less attractive to buyers.

[cuttles/sadieMay]

I dont have any advice but I just wanted to voice my oppinion on the matter! It is horrible what this breeder is doing! Danes have enough problems even with good breeding some things cannot be avoided but this is knowingly causing problems and she needs to be stopped.
I think that anyone with a dane has read somewhere at some time that you have to be very careful as to what colors you breed together. there is no way she could be this stupid! Like everyone else has said..... She obviously just doesnt care. It makes me sad :'(and mad
Carole

[Moni]

I'm actually going to speak against the grain here.  Everything after this is.."IMHO"

Genetically your breeder is behaving more responsibly then many Harl breeders.  If she breeds the white female(if health tests and what not are done) to a solid black, mismarked or mantle male, she has a very HIGH chance of having an entire litter of healthy(hearing and sighted) harliquins.  I personally wish MORE breeders would practice that instead of breeding Harl x Harl which produces the whites in the first place.  Especially since most of those "harl breeders" KILL the white puppies in the off chance that they  might be deaf and/or blind. 

I caught this right before hitting bed, and I have a wicked migraine so I'll try to explain more in the morning.

~Moni

[Anky]

OK I was all set to be mad, thinking she was breeding a deaf white girl.  Moni will explain the technicalities because she's good at that stuff.  In layman's terms this girl somehow avoided the MM gene, which is what makes the double harl white puppies deaf.  Having amazing genes like that you'd want to pass on.  PLUS like she said, a white bred to a black or mantle would produce a high output litter of Harls, AND with the mother not carrying the *Deafness* gene there's no way they'd be GENETICALLY deaf.

And TECHNICALLY whites aren't even breeding out of color family.  If you're a by the rules person the GDCA color code says that you can breed Harls and Mantles (Reason that Mantles were brought in were that the Harls would have some one legit to breed with), Fawns and Brindles, Blacks and Blues.  However there are amazing top of the line breeders who mix and match all the time.  There was an effort awhile ago to improve the Harl line (Harls are the most difficult color to get because there are so many factors that can go askew, just color wise, plus they're recessive.)  and they brought in fawns, which is why even in a line that's been color pure (Which is a TARDED term) for generations you can get a fawnequin to pop up.

But there are many ethical breeders who KNOW what they are doing that use colors that aren't in the standard (ie: Merles and whites) in their breeding program to produce amazing dogs.  If you could please PM me your breeders info.  Not because I want a puppy, just want to do research. 

[Kermit]

Well, I am thoroughly confused now.

She did breed a harle to harle litter, though, right???

[Maggie's Mom]

So, what you guys are saying is that this might be acceptable?  I don't get it, b/c she bred harle X harle in the first place.  Doesn't that mean that she doesn't know what she's doing?  I'm very happy that the little puppy came out seeing and hearing, but should you really push it beyond that?  And, I don't know what color she's planning on breeding the all-white female with anyway.  It could be another of her two Harle males...  I don't know.  I just don't know about all of this.  I'm very disappointed, and I have been since I first found out about the harle X harle breeding.

[Moni]

Ok, I have a quick minute to pop on so I'll see if I can explain myself better now. 

The fact that your breeder did a harl x harl is not a red flag.  I definitely don't agree with them and wish they wouldn't, but sadly that is how most(if not the majority of) harl breeders do it.. and I'm speaking of top show breeders here.  Its actually approved of in the Great Dane Club of America's *holy* Code of Ethics.. (gag)

The doubling of the merle gene is *not* what causes deafness in these dogs, its lack of pigment in the inner ear due to the excess amount of white on the head.  The fact that this female is lightly marked and hearing is a plus.  However, the double merle gene can cause eye problems, but they are not passed on the effected dogs' offspring(at least they haven't found them to be as of yet). 

The trouble with a mostly white dane is that you don't always know if they're white because of being a double merle or a merle/harl(studies point towards double harls being lethal and die in utero).  A double(homozygous) merle usually looks like what we'd call a merlequin though, so its a good bet that she's not a double merle.  However statistically speaking there is a greater chance of her having an entire litter of hearing/sighted harls by breeding this female to a mantle/black, then by someone breeding a harl x harl.

So anyways, I'm sure I made that as clear as mud.  I gotta run again, but ask away and I'll try to pop in later again.

TTFN
~moni