Author Topic: thinking on getting a prong collar for ms angel  (Read 5944 times)

angelsmama

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thinking on getting a prong collar for ms angel
« on: March 06, 2006, 02:23:56 am »
she walks me , not me walking her :-\  and the prong collar won't hurt her?????

Offline Senghe

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Re: thinking on getting a prong collar for ms angel
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2006, 02:57:50 am »
I'd personally try a gentle leader instead. Prong collars really only work in the hands of professional dog trainers and if they are not fitted correctly they are useless and can really hurt a dog.

angelsmama

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Re: thinking on getting a prong collar for ms angel
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2006, 03:02:12 am »
anything that will work, she about drags me on walks...how do they size them? around their neck? girth? by breed size?? and where would i get one i dont think our local pet store sells them.... and one more question..  how long does it usually take to break them of pulling?

Offline Senghe

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Re: thinking on getting a prong collar for ms angel
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2006, 03:41:07 am »
Try this link for a explanation of how they work, how to size etc...
http://www.premier.com/pages.cfm?ID=29

I used to walk Cadi, a friend's shar-pei, on a 'dogmatic' head collar (I don't think they're available in the USA) and the difference was amazing. On a collar, this dog wanted to go in 12 different directions all at once and he was incredibly strong - his eyes would go wild and he'd pant like he was going to have a heart attack. On the head collar he was a pleasure to walk and really calm.

As for how long it takes to break them of pulling, it all depends on the dog. My Phoebe (shar-pei) was really bad as a pupy and it took a week to cure her permanently with a no pull harness. This same design didn't work at all on Flynn as if he sees something he wants to investigate, he pulls like a train. So far the only thing that's worked with him is to wrap his flexilead round his chest and loop it thorugh the clip so it tightens if he pulls - I'm not really happy with this method to be honest and will be getting him a head collar this week.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2006, 03:42:41 am by Senghe »

kristi

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Re: thinking on getting a prong collar for ms angel
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2006, 09:19:46 am »
she walks me , not me walking her :-\ and the prong collar won't hurt her?????

I've used prong collars on all of my BP dogs... My rott wore one from 16wks on - the first training class he took required me to get one. It took one day for him to get used to wearing it. He never pulled, he ackowleged that I was still alpha even when we left our house & yard, I knew no matter what I had a handle on him. Sampson stared wearing one at 5yrs it only took a day or so for him to get used to it, he walks perfectly - & he out-weighs me by 15#! Control is important - I always want those "other" people to know that my dog isn't going anywhere that I don't want him to.

If you live near a Petsmart, you can go in & have the trainer there help you fit one correctly on your dog. Just remember, use it with a regular leash - a flexi-lead defeats the purpose. I actually saw someone walking their pit-mix with a prong-flexi combo - I was nervous because there was no control there at all! :o

I think it's safer to use than a slip-choke chain. I saw a dog with a collapsed windpipe from one of those once. :'(

Good luck! ;)

DakotaMom

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Re: thinking on getting a prong collar for ms angel
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2006, 09:41:10 am »
I have used a gentle leader and have very recently switched to prong collars for Dakota and Jade.

They both have very high prey drives when they spot squirrels. After a recent thread on one of my email groups I realized just how much trouble I would be in if even one of them decided to take off with me. I decided that a little discomfort for them would be better than risking our safety.

Offline paharts

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Re: thinking on getting a prong collar for ms angel
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2006, 10:20:23 am »
i think collars can be a touchy subject; it can be like talking about religion or politics. i hope everyone takes this thread with an open learning mind, like i've seen in many other discussion threads here. i know we've all seen something good, bad, scary about certain collars. and there are getting to be so many to choose from!

Angelsmama, i'm wondering you have taken Angel to any training classes [PetSmart, local community center, professional trainer]?  What do you walk her in currently?

I grew up using a plain choke collar on many show Mastiffs. I didn't have a problem with any of them. But I have seen them used improperly and therefore ineffectivly.
     I have seen people using prong collars while walking down the street. some of these people did it for show; like 'i have a pit bull so want to show how manly i am by using this collar'. I have seen dogs with this collar on pulling at the end of their leash as if they have a plain buckle collar on. Again, if it's used improperly it will be ineffective.
     Of all the various contraptions I have seen people use on their dogs, I think the head Halti [head collar] is one I've never seen rendered ineffective. [But I'm sure someone out there has.]

I strongly feel that any collar or harness you get should be thought of as an aid.  If you don't learn how to size it correctly or use it correctly, it won't work. Some dogs/owners require more time/training to get used to something new, some require less. But also, given time, dogs can find a 'loop hole' if they want to and figure out how to use the chosen aid to their advantage.
     My biggest suggestion to you is to take a class, if you haven't done so before. PetSmart is accessible to most people. If you have taken Angel to a class, perhaps she (and you ;)) need a refresher course.
     My 2nd biggest suggestion to you is "snap and release". That is how most aids are designed to work. You have to decide where you want her to walk [for example: her shoulder at your leg]. When she is there, she should be rewarded [voice, petting, treat, whatever she responds to without getting too worked up] periodically (more often while learning this). When she starts to leave that place [speeds up or slows down], give her a warning (I use voice for this; encourage if they slow, sharp 'ah' if they speed). The idea here is to keep her attention on you but you have to return the favor, especially in the beginning. If she continues to walk faster or slower, then a quick leash correction to get her attention back. Do not try to pull her to you; that encourages a tug-of-war and does not earn respect. A quick correction is a sharp, short yank followed by an immediate release. As soon as you get her attention back, you help her identify where she should be and immediately reward her. I believe this method is basically true no matter what you have the leash attached to.
     My 3rd big suggestion is consistency & patience. I cannot stress it enough. Both in yourself; both among family members. And they are all the more important when trying to teach something new.

I use the above method with all my dogs & horses and they all know what I expect of them. I have also taught others to do this with their dogs and have seen great improvement in manners.
     I met a woman with a large German Shep (Rocky) and 3 small kids. Rocky ruled the house and the woman dreamed of her littlest being able to walk him. I took her to PetSmart, we bought a plain choke chain, then went to an empty lot where I showed her the above steps. Within a few minutes, Rocky was no longer pulling and well on his way to learning where he was expected to be on a walk. She did this a few times a week for 5+ minutes (whatever she could spare). Within 2 weeks, she started letting her kids walk him. Now, he is an even bigger part of the family and has a better all around understanding of what is expected of him.

I do hope this helps.  I look forward to hearing what you decide to do and if it works for you.
Best Wishes,
We might not be able to save them all, but we sure can try - Hart's Animal Rescue & Training-Forever Home Adoptions/H.A.R.T.-FHA

Offline Rachel

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Re: thinking on getting a prong collar for ms angel
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2006, 10:28:28 am »
I agree with Paharts suggestion of the 'snap and release' method but I also suggest that when she starts pulling to immediately change directions and walk the other way.  Angel will not like to be dragged around so she will start paying attention to the direction you are going.  We always start with this method at the beginning of our walk.  I only need to make one or two direction changes before Sophie has all of her attention on me and is right by my side.  Once we are walking I only need to snap the choke once when her attention drifts and she is back on me.
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Offline paharts

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Re: thinking on getting a prong collar for ms angel
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2006, 10:57:12 am »
Oooo ... i forgot about that one.  very good rachel :D
We might not be able to save them all, but we sure can try - Hart's Animal Rescue & Training-Forever Home Adoptions/H.A.R.T.-FHA

Offline chaos270

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Re: thinking on getting a prong collar for ms angel
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2006, 01:03:26 pm »
I'd highly recommend the Gentle Leader.  My brother uses a choke chain on Kali and she'll listen with it for him but not for me.  The Gentle Leader has worked wonders with both her and Lacey.  I have no problem walking either of them with it and I'm definitely a lightweight and both can be really strong once they put their minds toward going somewhere.  I believe it also comes with a training DVD now too so you can get proper fit and use it effectively.
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angelsmama

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Re: thinking on getting a prong collar for ms angel
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2006, 02:14:25 pm »
right now she's walked with a  regular collar and leash, she pulls straight ahead entire time to the point she gags , very stubborn girl , ill be getting her a gentle leader ASAP..

Nicole

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Re: thinking on getting a prong collar for ms angel
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2006, 02:48:27 pm »
I've used a Gentle Leader with Cabeza. He was a terrible puller when he was younger. He is still kind of naughty on occasion, but very easily correctable. Cori, I would heed the advice of paharts. Good training is invaluable when trying to correct those problems and keep good control over Angel.

The thing is that Haltis/Gentle Leaders will work, but they don't actually fix the problem. And, some dogs learn to get out of them. In any case, I would use the gentle leader AND employ good training with Angel. That way, she actually knows what to do and you have better control over her.

Besides, training with Angel will give you good bonding time with her and make the two of you closer! Win-win situation!

Offline Rachel

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Re: thinking on getting a prong collar for ms angel
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2006, 03:31:32 pm »
We tried the Halti/gentle leader with Sophie and she hated it. Even with all the special treats and desensitation she would not wear it.  When we did get it on her she still pulled...  I don't think there are any quick fixes for pulling dogs just good training.  I also think that the maybe the head collar works better when you start using it on them at a younger age so they are used to it and you are not trying to get it on a 90+ pound struggling dog. Sophie used to cower when we would take it out of her leash box but when we take out the choke or the prong she jumps for joy and knows she is going somewhere fun.  I also think that maybe that stems from being a rescue dog where whenever they put the slip collar on her meant she was getting out of her cage.

Oh yeah and we also tried the Sporn harness which goes around the legs so supposedly the dog literally can not pull. yeah... that didn't work either...  lol
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Offline paharts

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Re: thinking on getting a prong collar for ms angel
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2006, 09:12:46 pm »
when we got our basset, Holi, my husband would only walk her with the buckle collar.  i don't know why he insisted on this but the result was ... while they walked, she would pull.  he would quickly jerk the leash [in the fashion of snap/release but with different results in that collar] when he either got tired of her pulling or wanted her to do something else. all the sudden yanking did cause her to develop internal scar tissue from damage to her trachea and she will cough if she runs hard for too long or if her throat is bumped.
when i walked her, it was always with the choker and i never let her start pulling to begin with. she walked politely next to me & i never had the problems he has.

most dogs that i've seen walked with a buckle collar pull. if they have a thick neck [like a rottie], they will tense their muscles and reduce the effect of the collar. if they have a skinnier neck [like a dane], they may end up with internal damage. while in the vets waiting room, i have seen several dogs with coughs due to a buckle collar.

i hope you will post your experience with the collar you choose, be it good or bad. i am always interested in hearing other people's experiences.
We might not be able to save them all, but we sure can try - Hart's Animal Rescue & Training-Forever Home Adoptions/H.A.R.T.-FHA

Offline dober_gurl

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Re: thinking on getting a prong collar for ms angel
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2006, 09:14:53 pm »
I use a prong on Maggie, but I learned how to use it in agility class, I've been using it since I was 12 though. It's pretty easy to learn. Maybe you can go to Petsmart with Angel and see if they will teach you how to use it on her. When you use it correctly, it works wonders!
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