Author Topic: The Nigel aggression saga continues.  (Read 7406 times)

Offline Kermit

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The Nigel aggression saga continues.
« on: March 18, 2006, 07:54:16 am »
Well, things had been going pretty good around here lately until this morning. Zoot and Nigel had really been great together, a few glances here and there but no growling or anything. We have been keeping the little terrier separated from Nigel for safety, because I have not been willing to take any chances until I felt really confident about Nigel's reformation.

All went out the window when Will walked into the house carrying a bag of dog food. I guess the mere presence of a bag of food is enough to trigger a fight! Apparently, Nigel jumped right on Zoot and started tearing into him. I was upstairs when I heard the familiar sound of my boys fighting. :-[ I came down and ushered the other dogs outside, and I was really hoping the fight would come to a resolve in just a few moments and they would reach some kind of understanding. Ha- no luck there. It became obvious that Zoot was not interested in backing down at all.  We separated Nigel and Zoot using a great technique that I HIGHLY recommend if anyone finds themselves in this very unfortunate situation- we each took a dog by the back legs and slowly pulled back, holding them like wheelbarrows. It takes a minute but they do let go and then I backed Nigel into the other room. When they can't see each other any more, they calm down.

So there was blood everywhere, and inspection of the dogs revealed that Zoot needed to go to the vet IMMEDIATELY. Nigel is more or less fine.
The vet told me Zoot is very lucky he didn't lose his eye and his front leg. Nigel apparently grabbed Zoot and tore him right next to a bundle of nerves that could have paralyzed Zoot's leg forever. But he *missed*. So Zoot is a mess, covered in blood and stitches and has punctures all over his face, neck and chest. :'(

I am so sad. :'( But I finally have the number of a local behaviorist thanks to my vet. And we'll see what we can do. I just can't believe what has happened. Nigel is such a sweet dog and I love him so much. I cannot bear the thought of giving him up, and I am afraid that is what people are going to tell me to do. It has already been suggested to me more times than one. But he is my dog. And he is not going anywhere. I already feel weak, but I have to muster up the strength to get through this situation.

I can't even look at Zoot's wounds. He looks terrible, but he is in good spirits and he is on pain medication. :-[ And he wants to eat really bad, but they told me to wait a while since he was under anesthesia to get the stitches.

Anyone have a really awesome success story of how an aggressive dog made a breakthrough and now he's really chilled out and sweet??? Please?!?? ??? :'(

Kiahpyr

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Re: The Nigel aggression saga continues.
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2006, 07:59:33 am »
I'm so sorry this has happened. Hopefully the behavorist can help you do something. If you need me I am here. Hang in there!

Nicole

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Re: The Nigel aggression saga continues.
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2006, 08:05:06 am »
Aw, dang it Rebekah! I wish I had something to offer other than my deepest concern and friendly support.

I do have one little thing, I guess. We used to have a husky mix named Tsunami. He was a super sweet dog. When we took in Cabeza as a foster (hahha....6 years ago..guess we're keeping him.. ;)) Tsunami changed. He got really food agressive and a few times it was really scary. He'd attack Cabeza really violently and suddenly. Everyone told us..you know..the worst. But, I was determined and tried everything. Of course, back then I didn't know even a fraction of the things I know now...

Anyway, nothing really worked for us. But, the good news is that Tsunami is a wonderful ALIVE dog with someone else. As long as he's an only dog, there are no issues at all. So, I guess all I'm saying is that you don't have to be afraid for Nigel's life...he's a great dog that might just need a new situation, that's all.

I don't know if that helps, Rebekah! But, I'm thinking of you guys and I hope you can find the answers you need!

Offline Kermit

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Re: The Nigel aggression saga continues.
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2006, 08:06:33 am »

On the other hand, it would probably help a lot to remove Leeloo from the situation.  I'm sure all the fighting is over her, and once you send her down to Florida to live with me, everything will return to peace and quiet.  Think about it!  ;D ;D ;D

Holly

Holly, don't make me kick your a$$! ;) Thanks for making me laugh. I needed that. Now keep your eyes off my girl Leeloo!!!  ;) :D :D :D

Thanks for the support, y'all. I sure hope the behaviorist has a solution. Nigel is a big dufus, but he also is a smart and obedient boy for me... (usually). I just hate that he has 95 pounds working for him when he gets in a bad mood! :-\
« Last Edit: March 18, 2006, 04:16:41 pm by doghealer »

Gypsy Jazmine

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Re: The Nigel aggression saga continues.
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2006, 08:08:48 am »
My boys fight but we've never even had blood...It sounds awful but no damage done as of yet thank goodness!...I am SO sorry you are going through this!...My heart really goes out to you because I know how stressed out you must be...I am sending prayers your way that you & the dogs will get the issues resolved...Let us know what the behaivoralist says.

Offline Nina

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Re: The Nigel aggression saga continues.
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2006, 08:13:16 am »
It could be that he is under stress from all the changes that have happened in the past few months, and he just doesn't know how to handle all of it. I really hope that the behaviourist can help you out. Maybe all it will take is some retraining. Having him on a leash around the other dogs and being able to correct the behaviour when it happens. 
And I am really sorry this is happening.
Get well soon Zoot!
Good luck.
Nina
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Calgary, AB, Canada
Harley(Lab mix)
Dilbert(Pyr mix)At the bridge
Jolene (cat)

Nicole

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Re: The Nigel aggression saga continues.
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2006, 08:39:25 am »
I mean, you are a LONG way from having to consider rehoming Nigel..I'm just saying..you mentioned that you shudder to think about what people will tell you to do.

I hope you didn't think I was suggesting you just get rid of Nigel...

Offline Halo05

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Re: The Nigel aggression saga continues.
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2006, 08:41:14 am »
Sorry to hear Nigel did that again. In my opinion it sounds like territory issues. Nigel may think the house and all of the people are his and Zoot needs to back off. Zoot thinks the same thing therefore a brawl. My frined has a female pit about 35 lbs and male Rottie about 150 lbs. She has the same problem. Terrible fights to near death. The Rottie actually broke his canine teeth off in the pits jaw. And the pit tore him from his neck through his shoulder. Its territory. Not dominance. It may never change for Nigel and Zoot. Nigel's getting older and knows he can back up his opinions. Good luck with the behaviorist. If it was me, they would never see eachother at all. That's how it is here with Halo and Brindle. Halo's in his crate, Brindle's loose. Halo's loose, Brindle's in the bedroom. They are much happier now.

Offline Kermit

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Re: The Nigel aggression saga continues.
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2006, 04:15:33 pm »
Wow... a lot to think about here.

Halo, I agree it is seeming more territorial than just dominance battles now. Which I think is more difficult to deal with. :-[
Nicole- don't worry, I know you are not telling me to give away my boy!
I am devoted to him, and I am going to get to the bottom of this. I am not mad at him like I used to be, I almost feel like he is crying for help somehow. Like a very disturbed teenager, if that makes sense. I think he has really bad anxiety, and I can't stand that he is so unhappy that he is lashing out. Something is off balance for him. I'm going to figure out what. I want to understand him. Geez I love him so much!!!

I just got off the phone with the woman who adopted him to me, and she recommended that before I go spend any money on a behaviorist I should instead get his thyroid checked and have a blood profile done. She has Nigel's brother Doc, (who is pretty much his twin) and she said Doc runs the other way if he sees dogs fighting. She also has Nigel's mommy, and said that there are no aggressive tendencies in her either. So she is suspicious that there could be an issue with his health.

Gyps, thanks for the prayers... Zoot especially appreciates that. :)

Oh, my Nigel hound. ::)

Offline ZooCrew

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Re: The Nigel aggression saga continues.
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2006, 05:47:13 pm »
If you are going to go the health route first (which isn't a bad idea), I also might try to see if you can have a animal chiropractor look at him to see if something is out of place or there is a pinched nerve or something.  I've seen bizarre cases where a joint out of place can cause night and day temperments.

Offline Kermit

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Re: The Nigel aggression saga continues.
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2006, 06:02:18 pm »
If you are going to go the health route first (which isn't a bad idea), I also might try to see if you can have a animal chiropractor look at him to see if something is out of place or there is a pinched nerve or something.  I've seen bizarre cases where a joint out of place can cause night and day temperments.
Wow, thanks for the tip! I hadn't thought about that. (Weird, too, since I used to work in a chiropractic office.) That is a great idea. :)

Gypsy Jazmine

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Re: The Nigel aggression saga continues.
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2006, 06:23:28 pm »
Wow... a lot to think about here.

Halo, I agree it is seeming more territorial than just dominance battles now. Which I think is more difficult to deal with. :-[
Nicole- don't worry, I know you are not telling me to give away my boy!
I am devoted to him, and I am going to get to the bottom of this. I am not mad at him like I used to be, I almost feel like he is crying for help somehow. Like a very disturbed teenager, if that makes sense. I think he has really bad anxiety, and I can't stand that he is so unhappy that he is lashing out. Something is off balance for him. I'm going to figure out what. I want to understand him. Geez I love him so much!!!

I just got off the phone with the woman who adopted him to me, and she recommended that before I go spend any money on a behaviorist I should instead get his thyroid checked and have a blood profile done. She has Nigel's brother Doc, (who is pretty much his twin) and she said Doc runs the other way if he sees dogs fighting. She also has Nigel's mommy, and said that there are no aggressive tendencies in her either. So she is suspicious that there could be an issue with his health.

Gyps, thanks for the prayers... Zoot especially appreciates that. :)

Oh, my Nigel hound. ::)

I just wish I could do more...Ya' know I really care. :)

Offline greek4

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Re: The Nigel aggression saga continues.
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2006, 07:46:37 am »
I took Maia to a behavioralist because she was showing fear followed by aggression towards everyone.  She is great now.

Essentially you train him to look at you everytime you say his name no matter what he is doing.  It is a slow process but here are the steps.
1.  Say his name and drag his eyes to yours with a treat.
2.  Say his name, then "good dog" or whatever and give treat
3.  Then you move onto not giving a treat everytime.
4.  Bring in distractions. still give treats
5.  Move where he has to turn to see you. still give treats
6.  Bring in major distractions still give treats

Those are the basic steps but it works with Maia because when she is unsure she automatically looks to me for what she should do.  Since she is very food motivated, her mood changes instantly when she sees food.  I have stashes of treats everywhere, in my house, car, garage, pockets, everywhere.

Good luck.  He will shape up.
Thanks,

Emily and 1 husband, 1 boy, 1 on the way, and 4 crazy dogs

Offline Kermit

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Re: The Nigel aggression saga continues.
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2006, 05:17:19 am »
Thanks Greek, that sounds like a great routine to add to what I will be doing for Nigel in the next weeks to come...

I heard back from a great behaviorist. She said if the aggression is only occurring in certain situations, I can de-sensitize Nigel to those situations. She actually made it sound very easy and she gave me a plan that she has had great success with. Yay! :D So we will start making him more comfortable with being in the room with other dogs when food is present, and see how it goes. If I follow the plan she gave me, it will be obvious pretty early on whether he is responding to it. :) She also told me go on ahead with the NILIF for him too. And Nigel is already pretty good at that. He is very polite to me always.  :)

So... after hearing from her she really made me feel so much more relaxed. I can't wait to work with Nigel and see what we can accomplish! :)

I really appreciate everyone's advice and support. ;D Hopefully I will have a progress report coming up very soon!

Offline smsmith

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Re: The Nigel aggression saga continues.
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2006, 04:00:55 pm »
What's the latest on the continuing saga?
Sarah