Author Topic: Danes killing screaming dogs  (Read 5397 times)

Offline tracey

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Danes killing screaming dogs
« on: May 10, 2006, 02:50:17 am »
I have 2 great danes, daddy, mommy and 2 baby girls, as well as a dalmation.  A friend told me that due to dane being originally bred to hunt boars, if they are near another animal that screams in pain for whatever reason, they will immediately jump in and silence that animal by breaking its neck etc.  She had seen this when a Jack Russel had been ridden over, but before the owner could get to it, the dane bitch had already killed it.  Can anyone confirm this behaviour pattern in danes.  On Sunday we came home and found our Jack Russel cross lying dead outside.  Her throat had been torn, but there was no sign of a vicious tearing apart or mauling that usually happens when dogs kill each other.  There was blood on both the dane bitch and the dalmation.  We think that perhaps the dalmation and the Jack Russel could have got into a fight, and when the Jack Russel started screaming, the dane jumped in and killed her quickly.  The Jack Russel was pretty old, about 10 or 11.  Thanks Tracey

cricket36580

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Re: Danes killing screaming dogs
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2006, 05:25:52 am »
Sorry but I think your friend sold you a line.  I too have had my crew around screaming infants and other critters and ALWAYS they are concerned, not viscious.  In fact I have to be careful with Bella cause if a baby cries, it's mama has exactly 2 secs to take care of it or Bella will.  She ADORES babies.  Also, pigs can and will scream but boars only grunt a low, deep grunt.  Its survival in the wilderness.  If an animal screams in the wild, it doesn't live long. 

However, if the dalmation and jack fought and the jack was that old, then it's more probable that the dalmation killed him more on accident than design.  If they were known to have spats it was only a matter of time for the jack to lose due to his age.

I am very sorry to hear about your little jack.  That's a horrible way for you to find him.  My thoughts are with you and your family.

Offline tracey

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Re: Danes killing screaming dogs
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2006, 05:34:51 am »
Dear Holly

Thanks for that reassurance - I have always noticed my danes looking concerned as well, but I was never sure if it was a "Oh shame" kind of look or a "Oh shame, let me help you out of your misery" kind of look, if you get what I mean.  In my original letter I mistyped 2 danes, but I have 4, two being 3 month old puppies.  Perhaps something happened with the Jack Russel and the puppies and mommy stepped it. 

Tracey

Offline DixieSugarBear

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Re: Danes killing screaming dogs
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2006, 06:52:16 am »
I was just reading about this last night in the book "How to Speak Dog".  "In well-established packs in the wild, or in well-bonded families containing more than one dog in the household, screaming will usually cause the other dogs to rally to the side of their hurt or frightened comrade."

There is a story in the book about a man walking a Malinois at a dog show when a Samoyed jumped out of a van onto a broken bottle and cut its paw. When the Samoyed started screaming the Malionois broke free of the leash adn bit the Samoyed several time before they could breakup the fight. 

From the book this can happen in any breed.

Lisa
« Last Edit: May 10, 2006, 09:12:01 am by DixieSugarBear »
Lisa, owned by the following:
Sugar Bear - Great Pyrenees 4.5 yr.
Dixie Darlin - Great Pyrenees 4 yr.
Penny Lane - Great Pyrenees 2.5 yr.
Beauman - Great Pyrenees 14 months
Izzy - Great Pyrenees 14 month
Rosie - Great Pyrenees (at the bridge)

GR8DAME

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Re: Danes killing screaming dogs
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2006, 07:43:39 am »
I have had a "pack" of dogs for 17 years or so, never less than two and sometimes as many as four at a time. I have had dobermans, danes, dane mixes and a shepard mix. I have had my dobermans attack and kill another small animal such as mice or squirrels. But it was never a "pack frenzy" nor was there any screaming involved. It was simply a high prey drive and instinct. I have never had one of my dogs "turn" on another in the pack due to an injury, nor react to each other's pain or my children crying in anything other than a gentle or concerned manner. I think your friend is simply repeating something that I would consider myth and continueing a terrible stereotype. Big dogs = killers. This is why BSL survives in politics, and is becoming a sad reality in too many places.
Stella
DISCLAIMER: This is simply my opinion, based on MY experience and not meant to offend or challange anyone.

Offline GreatDanz

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Re: Danes killing screaming dogs
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2006, 07:49:01 am »
Of all the silly stereotypes I have heard, this one falls right up there with "feeding raw meat will give your dog the taste for blood and make it aggressive". 

As someone who takes time to research subjects before I go spewing off at the mouth about them, hearing something like this about my beloved breed really irks me!

All we can do is educate, educate, educate, and I would be seriously inclined to sit down with this friend and explain to them how ridiculous their statement was.
-Ericka

Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible concatenations, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable.  Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion. -Albert Einstein

Offline mixedupdog

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Re: Danes killing screaming dogs
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2006, 11:51:27 pm »
I've seen this a time or two, but it seems to be more related to prey drive than anything else. Most recently it happened at a get together we had last year, mostly Labs, some Goldens, and my two, a Lab/Dane cross and a Mastiff/St. Bernard cross.  The lady that owned the park where we had the picnic came to see how we were doing with her two Jack Russells, a couple of Labs bowled them over and her female started screaming. Several of the Labs and my Mastiff X ran over and were definitely not "concerned", if no one had been supervising I don't think the JRT would have survived. Some of the dogs ignored it, my dog and a few others got a strange kind of murderous excitement. My Dane X couldn't care less.
Another friend had an old terrier that had seizures, she saw her Dane kill it during a seizure- she couldn't get across the yard in time. The Dane seemed to get very agitated by the terriers unusual behavior- and it was definitely not an accident, her dog grabbed the terrier and shook it like a rabbit.
 I've seen it at the dog park too, again, if no one had been supervising the little dog would have been killed.  But it's not on a breed basis, it's an individual dog thing- I think aggravated by the pack dynamic of a large get-together. Almost like a mob mentality.
I think it may be related to the kind of excitement a pack gets when hunting, the urge to be in on the kill can be very strong in some dogs, and once the prey is wounded, the instinct to compete for the kill may override training/domestication. The screaming turns the little dog from buddy to "injured prey" in the dog's mind. Sort of the way some dogs are fine unless you run, and then the chase instinct takes over and they may pull or knock you down- running triggers an instinctive switch that overrides their normal behavior, some individuals have stronger instinctive drives than others, or in different areas.

Offline mixedupdog

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Re: Danes killing screaming dogs
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2006, 12:34:20 pm »
I discussed this with a few of my trainer/behaviorist friends, and we all agree that yes, it does occur, and that it's related to prey drive- so your friend wasn't wrong, just a little anthropomorphi c, and mistaken to apply it to just Danes, it's an individual high prey drive/pack thing more than anything else. Since that drive has been bred out of a lot of lines it would probably be more accurate to say that breeds bred for hunting by running the prey down MAY be more likely to exhibit this phenomenon.
Oh, and not to be argumentative, but boar DO scream, they're pigs and they squeal like pigs- I've been on boar hunts with pit bulls and that noise certainly makes the dogs "ramp up". 

Offline MafiaPrincess

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Re: Danes killing screaming dogs
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2006, 04:06:23 pm »
My cocker cocked her head at the first two and was inquisitive trying to find the source of the noise.. and was concerned over the puppy crying.
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Icerotti

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Re: Danes killing screaming dogs
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2006, 05:40:32 pm »
They didn't care about anything other than the crying puppy. Rosie was the first to come over to the computer. Farley just kept cocking hihs head to one side.
Puck did nothing.....he probably thought ..I hope they didn't bring another rugrat home ::)

Offline mixedupdog

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Re: Danes killing screaming dogs
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2006, 07:07:12 pm »
Neither of mine cared at all, but I play all kinds of weird "music" and sound effects all the time- they learned to ignore the coyote howls a long time ago.  That puppy crying really sounded like a pup crying, most dogs would instinctively protect a youngster, that's not really the noise I'm talking about, it's that fear/hurt squealing that seems to trigger the problem. Not really a fair test, your dogs are in the house, not packed up running outside, and there's no actual animal for things like posture, etc. to set them off.
If you read my post again, I tried to say it was an INDIVIDUAL apparently prey driven response that only SOME INDIVIDUAL dogs display, with it POSSIBLY being more prevalent in dogs that were bred to run things down.
I love Danes, they're my breed of choice. I've had quite a few, and rescued/fostered many more. I wasn't trying to trash the breed, I was trying to have a civil, educational discussion about a little known aspect of pack behavior, sorry you took offense- I wasn't implying that anyone's dogs here would react like that.

Offline macybean

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Re: Danes killing screaming dogs
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2006, 08:15:12 pm »
Sadie and Riley were only slightly concerned about the two pig/boar sounds, but the puppies had them running to me concerned, cocking their heads to the side, and then looking around.

Offline Saint and Mal mom

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Re: Danes killing screaming dogs
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2006, 08:21:20 pm »
No reply from either of my girls on the first 2. But the last one, boy! Both girls' maternal instincts kicked in fast! They went looking for the puppy in trouble right away and were very concerned and curious.
Marissa

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Dolly, CGC- Saint Bernard, 4 years
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cricket36580

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Re: Danes killing screaming dogs
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2006, 08:50:40 pm »
ROFLMAO!!!!  The screaming puppy managed to wake all 3 of mine up and they tore up my dining room looking for it.  They ignored the pigs/boars.

Offline jaspers mom

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Re: Danes killing screaming dogs
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2006, 11:45:17 am »
Mine slept through all three.  Volume was way up and he was right there.  He's not very maternal, I guess-