Big Paws Only Dog Forums
BPO General Forum => General Board for Big Dogs with Big Paws => : lilysmom October 17, 2005, 09:12:58 PM
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I have to vent about something that happened yesterday. I was taking Lily and Raven for their evening walk and part of our walk takes us by a playground. Normally the kids will ask if they can come over and pet my dogs. But last night a huge group just came running at them. OK, I'm 5'1 trying to hold on to 200lbs. of dog. I can tell by looking at Lily that she's ok with it. Raven on the other hand has all the hair on her back standing straight up and is beginning to low growl. She likes kids, but she was scared out of her mind at them all running at her. So I yell to the kids that they shouldn't run at strange dogs and they just keep coming. So I'm trying to back the dogs up (yeah like that was happening) and I'm telling the kids to stop. Finally they get there and Lily is ok. She's wagging her tail and they're petting her. Thank god Raven had her pinch collar on because I was able to keep her at my side while they all pet Lily. Then they all start going over to Raven to pet her. Now, she is growling because she's nervous and I told them I didn't trust her behavior so please don't pet her. What do they do, they stick their hands out toward her. By this time I was ready to start screaming. What are parents teaching their kids these days. I would never have approaced a strange dog running or without the permission of the owner. FINALLY, a parent came over and told the kids to leave me alone. Where was that parent when those kids were running at me? Arrrrrrrrrrrrr r, I'm so frustrated. I guess I'll have to change their walking route.
Sorry about that. I had to get that out. :-[
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As a parent, let me be the first to apologize to you. The same thing has happened to me, and I was not nearly as nice, I screamed STOP. Then I proceeded to give a lecture to the kids, and never did let them pet my dogs. The result, a parent came up to me and said all snotty "If those dogs aren't safe, then they shouldn't be out on the street."
I told her "Walk on --tch, my dogs are fine, your *u*k*ng KIDS need to be on leashes." Like you, I don't mind if a couple of kids walk calmly up, but a screaming horde of children makes my dogs nervous, and nervous dogs are unpredictable.
Stella
Edited for spelling-lol
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I have one problem with Angus, and that is jumping up on strangers. People always rush him, and he gets super excited, even when I yell "stop, do not pet him till he is sitting" they just run in. I'm going to wait someday when Angus is nice and dirty and let him jump up on all those fools after I warn them.
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Believe me, I would have loved to use some more colorful language and tell those kids what I thought of them. But unfortunately, I live on a military base and if those kids had complained to their parents, my husband would be the one to get in trouble, not me. And he doesn't deserve that. So I have to bite my tongue. Oh well.
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Most kids will ask if my dogs are nice and I have to say Rocco-the black one is, but Maia is shy. Then I put Maia in a sit at my side and let Rocco sit a little in front of me and then tell the kids that they can approach him but he might lick their faces. A few times Maia has slowly walked up to be petted also. I just tell the kids to ignore her and let her come to them and it seems to work. I really haven't had the kids run up on me yet but if I did I would cause quite a scene because Maia would more than likely freak out and someone could get hurt.
I have taught all the kids I babysit to ask politely if they can pet someones dog before even approaching. I had to teach them this because after being around my dogs they had no fear and assume all dogs are like Maia and Rocco. Which is good they have no fear but very bad because not all dogs are nice.
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You had the perfect opportunity to educate these kids and their parent. Next time, don't hold your tongue. You don't have to be as... um... forward as Stella was, but if their parents aren't teaching them proper dog ettiquette, someone has to.
Since you live on a military base and these kids are all military brats, then why don't you approach a C.O. or an educator at their school and ask to give a presentation on how to approach a strange dog and proper pet care. You can bring Lily with you since she seems great with crowds and kids and let the kids get used to taking turns approaching her calmly and letting them pet her one by one or in small groups.
This is your perfect opportunity to take those lemons and make some lemonade, girl!!
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Whew, Lilysmom, I am really sorry that happened to you. That is a tough situation. Thank goodness you were able to keep Raven back. A fool child could really get himself hurt around a scared dog! Honestly, I am afraid of large groups of children myself, so I can empathize with the dog!!!
So often when kids get bitten the dog is blamed, but I bet 9 times out of 10 it is the child's fault. I don't have any kids but if I do I really want to make sure they have respect for dogs' space.
What a pain that you should have to alter your walking route. :(
But what a good doggie mom you are to be able to control two giant dogs around a herd of screaming kids! BRAVO!!! Well done!!! Give yourself a big pat on the back!!! :D
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Our FRG (family readiness group) has broached the subject on dogs and dogbites on our base. We've sent out letters and had meetings on this subject. We filed formal complaints with the housing office and so on. I did tell the kids that they shouldn't run at a strange dog. But the kids on this base are either deaf or don't care. I would love to have a class on this. Maybe I'll bring it up at our meeting tonight. Thanks for the advice. :)
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Whew, Lilysmom, I am really sorry that happened to you. That is a tough situation. Thank goodness you were able to keep Raven back. A fool child could really get himself hurt around a scared dog! Honestly, I am afraid of large groups of children myself, so I can empathize with the dog!!!
So often when kids get bitten the dog is blamed, but I bet 9 times out of 10 it is the child's fault. I don't have any kids but if I do I really want to make sure they have respect for dogs' space.
What a pain that you should have to alter your walking route. :(
But what a good doggie mom you are to be able to control two giant dogs around a herd of screaming kids! BRAVO!!! Well done!!! Give yourself a big pat on the back!!! :D
I have kids, and I teach them from really young that although our dogs are gentle with them, not all dogs are the same. I teach them to ask permission, approach a dog with arm out palm up to let the dog sniff, and to not be jumpy or run at a strange dog.
I would give myself a pat on the back, lol, but I think they dislocated my shoulder. :D
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Yeah, flyers and pamphlets tend to get glanced (if you're lucky) and tossed in the garbage, but if you do an in-person presentation with the kids, your message is almost guaranteed to stick. Follow it up with the handouts they can take home and show their parents when they are asked what they learned in school today.
I have a great coloring book we use for our local humane society that talks about proper care of all kinds of pets. I would be happy to send you the .pdf version you can use for this presentation or to have on hand to pass out to the kids, or to pass along to a local rescue organization in your area. I had the local newspaper print it for free for us. I just added their logo to the cover. I can send it to you with space on the cover left blank for you to add your own organization's info. or sponsor name. Does your base have a printing facility of its own?
Just let me know.
Jeanne
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We do have our own printing facility and that would be great. If you could email me the .pdf I could get started right away. As I said, we have a meeting tonight and I'd like to get this info out. Thanks so much for your help. My email. arcticwolf1975@hotmail.com
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I have this same problem with the kids on the farm. ::) I show them how to approach dogs and what is safe and what is dangerous, but sadly they still rush the dogs and hover and stick their faces right in the dogs faces and either stare into their eyes or blow at them. >:( My dogs don't seem to mind it(except for Zeo), but its rude and disrespectful and I don't appreciate them behaving like that with my dogs. ESPECIALLY when I've repeatedly asked them not to.
They love the dogs and always want to come over to play with my kids, but I've had to either not let them come over or lock the dogs away when they do. They just don't follow instructions well and I love my dogs to much to have to deal with the consequences of other people's children misbehaving. :(
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It's a shame that so many dog bites are the result of kids antagonizing the animal. And the dog suffers for it. I have kids that repeatedly stand outside in my front yard and tease the dogs when they're ground tied. They love to see the dog run and get jerked back by the lead which is 15' long. I stopped putting them out there which is a punishment for them and started putting them in the backyard when I couldn't be out there with them. Do you know those kids started coming to my back fence and teasing them through the fence? And then when Lily jumps the 6' fence and Raven eats her way through the fence, they'll blame my dogs and I'll be the one in trouble. Not those kids. There are very few dogs that will withstand teasing. And some really good dogs turn bad towards kids after awhile and then they wind up in a shelter because of it. Parents definately need to educate their children on proper dog etiquett. There should be a child obedience class just like the ones our dogs take. lol. :D
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It makes me so angry when kids don't listen, and it is true our dogs pay the price if something happens and it is the kids fault. Thankfully I haven't had a bunch of kids run up to us when we are walking the dogs but that is because we walk the dogs with halti's and people think that it is a muzzle, so they assume that out dogs are mean. So I guess in a way it is a blessing. LOL
Nina
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Actually I lectured the kids, it was the Mother that I was "forward" to. And I was just plain rude and ignorant to her. But if that is what it takes in order to protect my dogs from idiots and their gene pool, so be it. The next time she is with her empty headed friends and sees me I hope she passes the word that I am a nutcase and should be avoided. I am lucky enough to live in a normal neighborhood where my actions only reflect on me, and I can live with that.
Stella
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Some kids are just plain stupid and need to be bitten in order to learn not to run up and pet unfamiliar dogs. That's just how some people learn, except the scumbag lawyers have made sure you will get your butt sued, even though it's their dumb fault. What a country we live in! But actually, most kids are pretty intimidated of Drake due to his size and most of the time are reluctant to run up to him. Thank goodness for that, even though he would probably just drool all over them and lick them to death. ;D
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Oh what horrible children!! I just can't believe kids these days. They don't respect others property and frankly I think most kids in america need a good butt whoopin'.
I, too live on a military base, but I've never been rushed by kids. If kids come up to us, they have always asked to pet the dogs, and I always tell them to pet Keiko first b/c Gunther is afraid of children, especially large groups of kids, but he has gotten better. (at least he's not peeing when they pet him anymore). I've never had kids in my immediate area want to pet the dogs, only kids in the adjacent housing areas. I think the kids in my housing area think my dogs are mean, like most of the dogs here, which is fine w/me b/c I don't like getting bothered on our walks too much.
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Daneinsane.... .............I LOVE your new avatar. That is so cool looking!!
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Aww I'm so sorry that happened to you! I hate when that happens!
When we had Yaz, a foster dog, he wasn't socialized at all so I would take him on walks everyday after school. Well, one day a timed it badly and I went when all the kids were out. Yaz saw the group of kids and immediatly panicked, started backing away and didn't want to walk, so I took him halfway into the street away from the kids when they all started running up to us. I told them to stay away, that I don't know if he'll bite or not. So the little kids actually started to stick their hands by his mouth!! I was pissed, I just picked him up and walked away and those brats actually started throwing rocks at us! Well, the next day I talked to their moms and sisters and they got into a lot of trouble so I felt better.
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I am glad those kids got in trouble.
Nina
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It's just awful that kids don't know proper animal etiquette anymore.
I would no more gone runinng up to a strange dog when I was a kid than I would have jumped off the school roof!
Of course, most kids don't have any OTHER manners either anymore, so where would they get any dog manners? And far too many of them don't listen to their parents, so why would they listen to you? :(
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Of course, most kids don't have any OTHER manners either anymore, so where would they get any dog manners? And far too many of them don't listen to their parents, so why would they listen to you?
I totally agree, which is where my butt whoopin' would come into play. ;D
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So what happened at the meeting last night, Melissa???
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I handed out the sheets that you emailed me. I told everyone a little of what happened with my two dogs. No one seemed too concerned. I asked if I would be able to give a class using Lily and I was told that because I'm not licensed and don't have insurance protecting me against a possible dog bite, that I can't hold the class. So I'm trying to see if I can get someone from the humane society to do it. But there is so much red tape I have to get through. Supposedly the humane society has no jurisdictin over our military base so we have to get special permission from the Garrison Commander. I'm working on it though. He's a good friend of my husband so I'll talk to him and see what he says. I'll keep you informed by private email when I know more. Thanks again for your help Jeanne. :)
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I handed out the sheets that you emailed me. I told everyone a little of what happened with my two dogs. No one seemed too concerned.Â
Huh? I bet they would have been VERY concerned if one of the little demons acutally HAD been bit! And, of course, if would have been your fault, not the kid's!
Check and see if there is anyone in the area who has passed the Delta Society therapy dog certification. The local Humane Society may have members that have done this, Delta should be able to give you a reference in your area, too or call the local nursing homes and hospitals and see if they have anyone who comes there for visits with their dogs. They are likely licensed through Delta or someone else. Delta gives each licensed team $1,000,000 liability insurance policy when they pass.
Keep trying. You could really make a difference to these kids. If they start respecting animals now, they become their champions in the future!
Jeanne
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I know how important it is now thanks to you. I'll check with the HS to see if anyone has this certification. Thank you. :)
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Do you have a humane society on base? Would they have jurisdiction?
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Unfortunately we don't. But Jeanne helped me find the website where I can get me and Lily certified to do therapy work. Which includes doing a class for the kids at school, nursing home visits, hospital visits, etc.... So I signed up to do the course. It's only 5 steps so I should get it done in no time at all. :)
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Is it with the Delta Society? I've been flip flopping back and forth between them and Therapy Dogs International as to which one I want to go with. After we move I want to get Keiko certified for therapy work.
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yes it is with the Delta society. I can't wait to get started. Where are you moving to?
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Illinois, Chicago area (actually DeKalb area, but nobody knows where that is. :D )
I was going to get her certified out here, but she has a bit more leash work to do before I want her tested. She's good in my mind, but I'm afraid any kind of mess up and she'll fail the test, so I want her PERFECT (which I'm not sure she can do). Even if I got her certified out here, I would have to pay a yearly fee which isn't worth it when we're moving in 6-8 months, and then pay another yearly fee out there.
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She doesn't have to be perfect. That's what is so great about this. When they evaluate you they see that you have control over your dog. They don't judge you based on perfection. Go to the delta society homepage and look up the prerequisites for certification and it lists everything your dog has to accomplish. It's really quite easy. Good luck with your certification. :)
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Their requirements look pretty much the same as TDI's. I think I was looking at TDI b/c there were no Delta evaluators in this area, but maybe that's changed. The only thing I am worried about with her is that she gets very excited in new places. There is no where I can practice taking her into buildings here (where she doesn't get a treat from people........ .....which is why she gets so excited, most places hand out treats). I do have control over her and she listens, but she is definitely more distracted. Mostly I am worried about the walking on a loose lead.......... ....she doesn't pull, but prefers her lead taut. Everything else should be fine.
I wasn't aware you had to take a class to join this group. I guess that's actually a good thing, and more places should do that.