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Messages - patrick

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181
Food Discussion & Information / Re: Info about Dog Food...............
« on: November 05, 2008, 12:47:51 am »
Moderation is a consideration as well.  Food ingrediant lists can be daunting but the general trend is to go with natural ingrediants and less grain products.  Consideration needs to be for availability and costs as well as how YOUR dog does on the food.  Its all well and good to spend $70 or more for a bag of dog food but if your dog is thin on that brand then perhaps its not a good choice.  I reviewed many of the dog foods at k9cuisine.com and some of them looked good enough for me to eat.  BUT $162.00 for 27 pounds??????  Give me a friggin break!

As much as many on this list dislike some of the long time brands like Purina and Eukanuba the fact remains that they are still widely used and a lot of dogs do very well on them.  So the best advice is to feed the best you can afford and the food that your dog does well on

182
Discussions & Information on Grooming / Re: Bad Hair Days
« on: November 05, 2008, 12:29:07 am »
The best I have found is a long toothed rake- both a regular and an undercoat rake.  Also for the long hair areas like the butt I use a long toothed comb.  I do not use a slicker as it actually breaks the hair but do use a pin brush for the body hair and just to smooth down the coat.  It never hurts to keep a matbreaker around for those areas that tend to clump and mat.

183
Old English Mastiff Discussions / Re: breeding help
« on: November 03, 2008, 03:31:03 am »
Author: Cindy Tittle Moore, copyright 1995
part 6
_What is out crossing? _

Out crossing is where the sire and dam are totally unrelated, preferably for three or four generations. The true form of an outcross is between two entirely different breeds because in reality the members of most registered breeds come from a common ancestor (although it may be many, many generations back). It is very rare for out crossed puppies to be uniform in appearance. Usually there are very large ranges of sizes, coats, colors, markings, and other distinctive characteristic s. Out crossed litters are generally heterozygous, and do not reliably reproduce themselves, so even the nicest puppy in the litter may not later produce the best puppies.

Out crossing is generally used to introduce something new to a line -- a better head, better colors, better front, etc. Usually the puppies retained from these breedings are bred back into the breeder’s original line to standardize them back into the line’s general characteristic s and reproducibilit y -- with the one desired characteristic . The tricky part is that other characteristic s may come along for the ride!

If you are dedicated enough, you can eventually continue breeding by out crossing alone (but don't expect instant or quick results). You should pick dogs that complement each other well and are similar in general appearance. This is a long hard road to eventually developing a line. Through out crossing, many health problems can quickly be eliminated (or just as quickly added into your breeding), but usually you do sacrifice some show quality and producibility.

You have to remember that dogs that appear totally healthy may be carriers of genetic problems. To find this out, test mating is done to a dog that is affected with the genetic problem (resulting usually in puppies that are both affected and non-affected carriers) or by inbreeding to a related dog that also doesn't show the signs of being affected (usually littermates are used) this will usually result in some puppies free of the problem, some puppies as carriers, and some puppies affected if both dogs carry the problem gene (this is not as accurate as breeding to an affected dog, but you are less likely to have to put all the puppies down).

There are variations on out crossing. A "true" outcross could be a dog that has totally unrelated dogs bred together throughout the pedigree. This is very rare. On the other hand, "line crossing" is a form of out crossing where dogs from unrelated lines are bred to produce a new line. The sire and dam are usually very line bred from their prospective lines and the resulting puppies are varied in appearance, some looking like the sire's line and some looking like the dam's line and some looking like mixtures of both lines.

_How about line breeding? _

Line breeding is when the sire and the dam are distantly related: e.g., grandsire to granddaughter, grand dam to grandson, second cousins, half cousins, uncle to niece, aunt to nephew..... The general strategy is that there is a common ancestor that is being doubled up on both sides. So the desired dog appears several times in the pedigree.

This is probably the most common strategy in breeding purebred dogs (and in developing new breeds, for that matter). Though this method, new genes are slowly introduced and unwanted genes are slowly replaced. The actual rate varies by how strongly you line breed. It sacrifices little overall quality in terms of show quality. Usually the puppies are rather close in general conformation. The only problem with this method is that it often takes several generations to get poor genes out, (or adding desired genes in) resulting in many puppies that have the same genetic problems (or virtues) that their parents have. And then because some breeders are more interested in winning, they do not place the affected puppies on spay/neuter contracts. This is both a blessing and a curse for the breed. If the breeder is very careful, affected pups can be used wisely to prevent loss of quality, but still remove the affected genes by only breeding the affected pups to known non-carrier relatives. This way the breeder can again try to “edit out" the bad genes. It takes longer this way but less show quality is lost in the process. This process results in dogs that will often reproduce their same level of quality. This is referred to as reaching homozygous litters (more genes of the same kind apparent in the puppies).

Inbreeding and line breeding really differ only in degree. Line breeding is less likely to cause harm than inbreeding. Inbreeding is not for novices. Knowledge of genetics and the breed is required for success. For good results it must be well-planned and breeders must be ready for whatever problems it presents.

_And inbreeding? _

Inbreeding is where the sire and the dam are closely related: mother to son, father to daughter, sister to brother, half sister to half brother, cousin to cousin. People disagree about the exact point at which inbreeding becomes line breeding. Inbreeding is the quickest way to find out what poor genes are in the line and what dominant characteristic s are in the line.

Although many people are disgusted with the idea of this family incest, it is an extremely useful tool for diagnosing what genes are present. If the genes for bad eyes are present, but hidden or recessive, this will bring them out to their full extent. If there isn't any bad genes, then the puppies will be of very close uniformity and very able to reproduce themselves (theoretically). This is a homozygous breeding. The resulting puppies will have a lot of genetic material that is the same as their parents and grandparents and will be close genetically to each other.

Inbreeding doesn't introduce new genes and does not eliminate bad genes that the line already has. It only shifts them around like a rubix cube. This often results in litters with high show potential, if the quality was high to begin with. It shows you what recessives you have lurking in the dogs' backgrounds -- _both_ good and bad. But there are drawbacks. Besides the possibility of bad recessives, inbreeding exclusively will eventually lead to infertility. It's like a Xerox machine. After so many copies, you have to renew the ink. The same with dogs, you have to introduce new genes. No reputable breeder will use inbreeding exclusively, and many breeders simply never use it. Usually, you will only find: very experienced breeders, ignorant breeders, and puppy mills making use of this technique.

Inbreeding increases the chance that a gene obtained from the sire will match one obtained from the dam, both stemming from the common ancestor(s) on which the individual was inbred. Thus, inbreeding tends to make animals homozygous rather than heterozygous. The inbreeding coefficient measures the resulting increase in homozygousity. All breeds have a given degree of homozygosity the mating of two dogs from the same breed would not produce a recognizable specimen of the breed!

Inbreeding increases homozygosity and decrease heterozygosity . So it can duplicate both desirable and harmful alleles, both of which can be unsuspected in the line, and may appear. Inbreeding does NOT create anomalies; it brings present anomalies to the surface. Even when the anomalies are present, inbreeding might not reveal them. However, once revealed, then the breeder can do something about them in the next generations of breeding.

An increase in harmful recessives is undesirable but it is not a major drawback if they are identified early. The effect of inbreeding on major polygenic traits is greater. Generally, traits that are highly inherited (i.e. largely additively controlled) are not adversely affected by inbreeding but, traits under non-additive control, especially those tied to dominance and thus not of high heritability, are often markedly harmed by inbreeding.

184
Group Discussions & Photos / Re: Sharing Some PICTURES!
« on: November 03, 2008, 02:28:07 am »
Great pics of your babies  The Akita is absolutely stunning!!

185
The scenery is breath taking and the dogs beautiful  Thanks for sharing

186
Newfoundland Discussions / Re: Should I bother?
« on: October 31, 2008, 03:49:32 am »
By all means contact the breeder- they need to be kept abreast of problems that develop in their puppies.  You cannot always foresee problems but you can prevent them from occurring again.

187
Old English Mastiff Discussions / Re: breeding help
« on: October 30, 2008, 01:53:38 pm »
Line breeding- with tested and outstanding lines of course is a very common practice.  With line breeding you basically know what you are going to get and your good traits are entrenched and not just a fluke.  With an outcross you don't know what is going to show up- some things may be good and some may be bad.  With a breeding program you do have to outcross periodically to keep your gene pool healthy but it has to be done carefully- hence your need for a mentor!  They can give you great advice on what lines produce what and what lines have problems in them or will not cross well with your dog's genetics.  Breeding decisions are very complex and best to learn from somebody with many years of experience. 

188
This is not 'stealing' she is just being a puppy!  She is in the teething stage and it becomes your challenge to give her enough safe and appropriate items for her to gnaw on and play with.  I use plastic bottles like water bottles or milk jugs, bones, rawhides, big beef bones from the butcher, tug ropes, kongs, particularly stuffed with something really good like cheese or peanut butter.  I also give things like empty boxes and old magazines- for some reason puppies love to shred paper.  And you have to put away your daughters toys  If she has a variety of things that are hers and lots of exercise to burn off baby energy things will get better but puppies are just like toddlers and they will get into everything!

189
It actually was not quite so truthful- the dog did go through the window ONE time, not twice in one year. And the person she is referring to is a well respected breeder of more than 20 years-

190
Saying a responsible breeder would never let an oops litter occur is something like saying a responsible driver would never let a car accident occur.  Even with all the precautions in the world an accident can occur. To say not is to truly underestimate the tremendous instinct of animals to procreate.  If you want to be 100% sure then your dogs should be spayed or neutered.  That is the only sure way to prevent unwanted litters. 

191
Great Pyrenees Pictures / Re: outdoor doggies
« on: October 27, 2008, 01:26:55 am »
I have Pyrs too and some of them prefer to sleep outside.  Many is the night that I get up after midnight and let them go outside to sleep= as long as they don't
bark and disturb the neighbors.  As a guard they feel very comfortable being outside so they can keep all the monsters away.  I actually feel guilty by making them sleep inside!  Different story when it rains- then you can't make them go outside!

192
Cirra always has a GLORIOUS coat  I keep trying to get them to take some of my dogs for grooming!

193
Leonberger Discussions / Re: Sophie is driving me crazy- vent/need advice
« on: October 26, 2008, 01:07:47 am »
If your yard is fenced put her outside for 8-10-12 hours a day  She's got a lot of pent up energy and that will help her burn it off.  Remember a tired puppy is a good puppy.  As for food- put it away!!!!!!!!  Some dogs will always steal food from the countertops but they can't steal it if its not there. If she is getting in the trash its because she can- secure the trash can or don't put wonderful stuff in there like leftovers, empty cans etc.  In my house anything that might be of interest does NOT go in the trash can- it is bagged and put on top of the fridge until the trash is emptied. Training will definitely help but she needs to burn off some puppy energy and the human body is not built to be that active so taking a walk a day isn't going to do it. 

194
I think you overplay the oops litters by breeders.  In 18 years I have had ONE oops and that is with 6-10 intact females and males available to breed same.  The unplanned litters that occur are by far due to pet owners that leave their dogs run loose and if you can't or are unable to keep separated when needed - then by all means spay!

Testicular cancer is so low in incidence as to be close to non-existent (2/10ths of 1 percent) and is one of the cancers that is usually  curable.  Testicular cancer would not entice me to neuter HOWEVER osteosarcoma up to 25% sure prevents me from early neuter!  And spay incontinence is a prevalent reason females are given up to the shelters-at an older age when they are not very adoptable.

195
What a striking pup!  Congrats!

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