Grrrrr.....Boo

[Boobearsmom]

Ok, just a quick background on whats going on and why I need advice.  DH and I were separated for a while and recently got back together.  Well I have Boo and he has a female, unspayed American Bulldog/Pitbull mix who is only a few months older than Boo.  So in the beginning (of the two dogs getting together) Boo didn't really want to play that much with this other strange dog and just wanted to lay around (which she had started doing a lot of anyway recently).  Now like two months later this whole dynamic has changed A LOT!   I at first thought that Maiden (DH's dog) was alpha, but now I'm not so sure.  The tables have turned and now Maiden just wants to sit around and Boo is constantly harassing her.  Always nipping at her ears, neck, back or whatever is available.  Maiden wants no part of this and has decided she's going to hide with me whenever Boo is driving her nuts, which is every day.  This morning I caught Boo with her mouth around Maiden's neck and Maiden on her back.  So who is alpha (besides me)?  Maiden gets really ornery if Boo gets too close to me while I'm doling out their dinner and will growl at her and give her a warning nip, but that's all she seems to do to her.  Then this morning Boo had her by the neck.  There is more to it also, like Boo constantly being in trouble doing things she never did before, or just did them rarely.  I'm talking things like her getting into the garbage, chewing our daughters toys, barking at me, constantly begging food.  Ok, even more, sorry this is a book here.  The two of them when they do get going and Maiden wants to play, go rampaging thru the house to the tune of almost knocking out an air conditioner in a second floor window.  Boo instigates most of this and will try and keep Maiden going with her.  If I put the two of them outside they flop on the ground because its been so hot.  Soooooo....any ideas on how to deal with two demon dogs?? 

[doggylover]

Ok, just a quick background on whats going on and why I need advice.  DH and I were separated for a while and recently got back together.  Well I have Boo and he has a female, unspayed American Bulldog/Pitbull mix who is only a few months older than Boo.  So in the beginning (of the two dogs getting together) Boo didn't really want to play that much with this other strange dog and just wanted to lay around (which she had started doing a lot of anyway recently).  Now like two months later this whole dynamic has changed A LOT!   I at first thought that Maiden (DH's dog) was alpha, but now I'm not so sure.  The tables have turned and now Maiden just wants to sit around and Boo is constantly harassing her.  Always nipping at her ears, neck, back or whatever is available.  Maiden wants no part of this and has decided she's going to hide with me whenever Boo is driving her nuts, which is every day.  This morning I caught Boo with her mouth around Maiden's neck and Maiden on her back.  So who is alpha (besides me)?  Maiden gets really ornery if Boo gets too close to me while I'm doling out their dinner and will growl at her and give her a warning nip, but that's all she seems to do to her.  Then this morning Boo had her by the neck.  There is more to it also, like Boo constantly being in trouble doing things she never did before, or just did them rarely.  I'm talking things like her getting into the garbage, chewing our daughters toys, barking at me, constantly begging food.  Ok, even more, sorry this is a book here.  The two of them when they do get going and Maiden wants to play, go rampaging thru the house to the tune of almost knocking out an air conditioner in a second floor window.  Boo instigates most of this and will try and keep Maiden going with her.  If I put the two of them outside they flop on the ground because its been so hot.  Soooooo....any ideas on how to deal with two demon dogs?? 

Please take what I have to say with a HUGE grain of salt.  I don't have a very deep understanding/knowledge of this kind of thing.  My best guess is that they are still struggling to establish pack order and that when they figure it out, they will be at peace.  Who does in/out of doors first?  Do either of them get to be on furniture?  If so do both get this privalege?  Who eats first? 
There are many people on here with extensive knowledge in this area, so if for some reason this thread doesn't get picked up, I'll bump it for you.  People here love to help

[Boobearsmom]

Ok, just a quick background on whats going on and why I need advice.  DH and I were separated for a while and recently got back together.  Well I have Boo and he has a female, unspayed American Bulldog/Pitbull mix who is only a few months older than Boo.  So in the beginning (of the two dogs getting together) Boo didn't really want to play that much with this other strange dog and just wanted to lay around (which she had started doing a lot of anyway recently).  Now like two months later this whole dynamic has changed A LOT!   I at first thought that Maiden (DH's dog) was alpha, but now I'm not so sure.  The tables have turned and now Maiden just wants to sit around and Boo is constantly harassing her.  Always nipping at her ears, neck, back or whatever is available.  Maiden wants no part of this and has decided she's going to hide with me whenever Boo is driving her nuts, which is every day.  This morning I caught Boo with her mouth around Maiden's neck and Maiden on her back.  So who is alpha (besides me)?  Maiden gets really ornery if Boo gets too close to me while I'm doling out their dinner and will growl at her and give her a warning nip, but that's all she seems to do to her.  Then this morning Boo had her by the neck.  There is more to it also, like Boo constantly being in trouble doing things she never did before, or just did them rarely.  I'm talking things like her getting into the garbage, chewing our daughters toys, barking at me, constantly begging food.  Ok, even more, sorry this is a book here.  The two of them when they do get going and Maiden wants to play, go rampaging thru the house to the tune of almost knocking out an air conditioner in a second floor window.  Boo instigates most of this and will try and keep Maiden going with her.  If I put the two of them outside they flop on the ground because its been so hot.  Soooooo....any ideas on how to deal with two demon dogs?? 

Please take what I have to say with a HUGE grain of salt.  I don't have a very deep understanding/knowledge of this kind of thing.  My best guess is that they are still struggling to establish pack order and that when they figure it out, they will be at peace.  Who does in/out of doors first?  Do either of them get to be on furniture?  If so do both get this privalege?  Who eats first? 
There are many people on here with extensive knowledge in this area, so if for some reason this thread doesn't get picked up, I'll bump it for you.  People here love to help

I try and go down the stairs first but usually move out of the way because both go rampaging down the stairs.  When DH and I were separated Boo was allowed with me on any furniture but DH put an end to both dogs being on the furniture.  Boo does have her crate that she gets put in at night and Maiden never had one so she sleeps underneath our bed.  But thats going to be coming to an end because I'm getting a bigger crate for Boo and getting Maiden one too.  As far as feeding, I make both sit/stay and tell them to go to their own respective dishes at the same time.   

[Kiahpyr]

Here's an article that may help. You can also search the site under training issues.

http://www.doglinks.co.nz/articles/wolf%20article.htm

[doggylover]

It sounds, to me, like they are just jockying for position, and that you are doing a lot of things right.  I think I will be going through this soon too, with Badger and our new pupper.  It is stressful for us, but I am sure they will work it out.  Maybe I should copy this whole thread for myself to read when I am in your spot in a few months...we all go through it.  You are doing GREAT!
Hopefully others will post with more/better info. 

[Boobearsmom]

I was thinking the same thing...trying to establish a pecking order....two females...one unspayed - is Boo spayed? I'd try doing NILF with them - make both of them SIT before you give them anything....ea ting, going out, play time, NO furniture time and definitely not on your beds. Gate of areas of the house you don't want them destroying and don't feed them in the same area to maintain peace. Bava's always had this thing with his food when other dogs are around so none of the dogs even see each other or hear each other when they're eating. If Boo is trying to establish her Alpha-ness with Maiden, trying to reduce instances where she feels she needs to be alpha might help her out some. But definitely feed them separately.

Boo is spayed.  Maiden will be going soon too.  Boo has been thru beginning and intermediate obedience and DH never took Maiden, so thats another thing she's going to be starting.  The thing is though, Maiden, the one who I thought would be the "demon", being untrained basically, is now the one who is good. She's actually now my velcro dog where Boo used to be my velcro dog.  I wonder if that has anything to do with it also.   Maiden looks to me to "save" her when Boo is bugging the he** out of her.  She'll literally hides behind my legs!   And as far as feeding, they get fed on opposite sides of the stove so I may have to change that to different rooms.  All of these suggestions are great and I really appreciate you guys helping me out!!   As soon as the two lunatics stop moving, I'll post pictures.

[Softhug]

Grain of salt thing here too.

I am reading "Ceasar's Way" by Ceasar Milan <the Dog Whisperer>.  I am kind of dealing with the same thing with Tsu and Boudreaux.  I just got thru the chapter than says if you/family are established as the alpha that there is no "second in command", the other dogs should be equal in their own eyes.  This is my first experience with two dogs in the house so I am talking out of my butt here... multiple dog owners may strongly disagree with that.  Again, I am still learning myself so if that is incorrect in everyones experience, let me know.     

I am starting to realize how very important it is to walk the dogs twice a day, every day.  Boudreaux is WAY calmer when he taken for a good walk twice a day.  Do Boo and Maiden get walked every day?  That may help them calm down a bit, wear their furry butts out!    Ceasar said that if you can't walk at LEAST an hour a day, to get them backpacks with weights in them to make the shorter walk more productive. 

A walk can't hurt nonetheless! Good luck!     

[greek4]

Rocco and Maia definately see me as the Alpha and my cousin as superior to them.  They still argue with each other every once in a while about which one of them comes next but overall they are very comfortable with the fact that they are both just as inferior to Jane and I as the other one.  Maia will challenge my alpha status every once in a while by not moving when told or bolting in the dog before us, thus she sleeps most nights in her crate and is made to wait before going in doors.  Rocco on the other hand will do whatever he is told (with a sigh) and completely believes in ladies first with the humans but will squeeze through at the same time with Maia.

I definately agree with getting them both crate trained and off the furniture.  Otherwise it sounds like you are doing everything right.  Daily walks never hurts (though I am sad to say we don't take them).

[Boobearsmom]

Grain of salt thing here too.

I am reading "Ceasar's Way" by Ceasar Milan <the Dog Whisperer>.  I am kind of dealing with the same thing with Tsu and Boudreaux.  I just got thru the chapter than says if you/family are established as the alpha that there is no "second in command", the other dogs should be equal in their own eyes.  This is my first experience with two dogs in the house so I am talking out of my butt here... multiple dog owners may strongly disagree with that.  Again, I am still learning myself so if that is incorrect in everyones experience, let me know.     

I am starting to realize how very important it is to walk the dogs twice a day, every day.  Boudreaux is WAY calmer when he taken for a good walk twice a day.  Do Boo and Maiden get walked every day?  That may help them calm down a bit, wear their furry butts out!    Ceasar said that if you can't walk at LEAST an hour a day, to get them backpacks with weights in them to make the shorter walk more productive. 

A walk can't hurt nonetheless! Good luck!     

I used to take Boo on "training" walks all the time.  We'd do some basic obedience along the way.  Unfortunately its been hectic and I haven't had a chance to take her lately.  Maiden is unwalkable, if that makes sense, with me right now.  Even though she's half the size of Boo, she's a massive puller.  I have to get her fitted for a harness and get her into basic obedience.  When these two start in the house with the rough-housing, I stop both of them and tell them "no".  Should I just let them go and get it all out??

[doggylover]

Grain of salt thing here too.

I am reading "Ceasar's Way" by Ceasar Milan <the Dog Whisperer>.  I am kind of dealing with the same thing with Tsu and Boudreaux.  I just got thru the chapter than says if you/family are established as the alpha that there is no "second in command", the other dogs should be equal in their own eyes.  This is my first experience with two dogs in the house so I am talking out of my butt here... multiple dog owners may strongly disagree with that.  Again, I am still learning myself so if that is incorrect in everyones experience, let me know.     

I am starting to realize how very important it is to walk the dogs twice a day, every day.  Boudreaux is WAY calmer when he taken for a good walk twice a day.  Do Boo and Maiden get walked every day?  That may help them calm down a bit, wear their furry butts out!    Ceasar said that if you can't walk at LEAST an hour a day, to get them backpacks with weights in them to make the shorter walk more productive. 

A walk can't hurt nonetheless! Good luck!     

Jacquie, this is the exact source of my confusion as well.  DH says that we are Alpha, then comes Badger, then Gossy.  But I have heard Cesar say many times that that isn't fair or comfortable for dogs, that he and his family are Alpha, and all of the dogs are equal.  I can't figure this one out at all.  On the one side, I want to help establish pack order with them being equal, on the other hand, I wonder if Badger should be alpha over her...? It's very confusing to me. 

[Softhug]

I used to take Boo on "training" walks all the time.  We'd do some basic obedience along the way.  Unfortunately its been hectic and I haven't had a chance to take her lately.  Maiden is unwalkable, if that makes sense, with me right now.  Even though she's half the size of Boo, she's a massive puller.  I have to get her fitted for a harness and get her into basic obedience.  When these two start in the house with the rough-housing, I stop both of them and tell them "no".  Should I just let them go and get it all out??

**********************************************************
Boudreaux was a pretty good puller too.  After two days of walking and getting our arms nearly pulled out of socket, we went and got a prong collar.    I LOVE THE PRONG COLLAR!   Yes it looks like a torture device, but it doesn't hurt (my "daughters" BOTH  had to try it on their arms to be sure, as did my sister-in-law).  The very next walk, after about a minute-literally-the pulling stopped and hasn't returned.  Our petite 12 year old can now walk him.  It was the best $13 I have spent in ages!

modified to add:  I would not let them go at it and get it all out.  If it is just playing, it will let them learn that rough-housing indoors is ok and for big dogs it is just asking for something to get broke.  Again, opinion.

[doggylover]

I used to take Boo on "training" walks all the time.  We'd do some basic obedience along the way.  Unfortunately its been hectic and I haven't had a chance to take her lately.  Maiden is unwalkable, if that makes sense, with me right now.  Even though she's half the size of Boo, she's a massive puller.  I have to get her fitted for a harness and get her into basic obedience.  When these two start in the house with the rough-housing, I stop both of them and tell them "no".  Should I just let them go and get it all out??

**********************************************************
Boudreaux was a pretty good puller too.  After two days of walking and getting our arms nearly pulled out of socket, we went and got a prong collar.    I LOVE THE PRONG COLLAR!   Yes it looks like a torture device, but it doesn't hurt (my "daughters" BOTH  had to try it on their arms to be sure, as did my sister-in-law).  The very next walk, after about a minute-literally-the pulling stopped and hasn't returned.  Our petite 12 year old can now walk him.  It was the best $13 I have spent in ages

LOLOL When I got Badger's prong collar, I put it on and had DH drag me around (get your heads outa the gutter) to make sure it wasn't 'painful'.  It doesn't 'hurt' it 'startles'.  We LOVE it.  Badger is very dainty with it on!

[Softhug]

I used to take Boo on "training" walks all the time.  We'd do some basic obedience along the way.  Unfortunately its been hectic and I haven't had a chance to take her lately.  Maiden is unwalkable, if that makes sense, with me right now.  Even though she's half the size of Boo, she's a massive puller.  I have to get her fitted for a harness and get her into basic obedience.  When these two start in the house with the rough-housing, I stop both of them and tell them "no".  Should I just let them go and get it all out??

**********************************************************
Boudreaux was a pretty good puller too.  After two days of walking and getting our arms nearly pulled out of socket, we went and got a prong collar.    I LOVE THE PRONG COLLAR!   Yes it looks like a torture device, but it doesn't hurt (my "daughters" BOTH  had to try it on their arms to be sure, as did my sister-in-law).  The very next walk, after about a minute-literally-the pulling stopped and hasn't returned.  Our petite 12 year old can now walk him.  It was the best $13 I have spent in ages

LOLOL When I got Badger's prong collar, I put it on and had DH drag me around (get your heads outa the gutter) to make sure it wasn't 'painful'.  It doesn't 'hurt' it 'startles'.  We LOVE it.  Badger is very dainty with it on!

LOL!!! I so thought of black leather!  Freaky-deek!!

[doggylover]

LOLOL 
I think Boo's poor mom is losing faith in our suggestions as we speak!

[Softhug]

Grain of salt thing here too.

I am reading "Ceasar's Way" by Ceasar Milan <the Dog Whisperer>.  I am kind of dealing with the same thing with Tsu and Boudreaux.  I just got thru the chapter than says if you/family are established as the alpha that there is no "second in command", the other dogs should be equal in their own eyes.  This is my first experience with two dogs in the house so I am talking out of my butt here... multiple dog owners may strongly disagree with that.  Again, I am still learning myself so if that is incorrect in everyones experience, let me know.     

I am starting to realize how very important it is to walk the dogs twice a day, every day.  Boudreaux is WAY calmer when he taken for a good walk twice a day.  Do Boo and Maiden get walked every day?  That may help them calm down a bit, wear their furry butts out!    Ceasar said that if you can't walk at LEAST an hour a day, to get them backpacks with weights in them to make the shorter walk more productive. 

A walk can't hurt nonetheless! Good luck!     

Jacquie, this is the exact source of my confusion as well.  DH says that we are Alpha, then comes Badger, then Gossy.  But I have heard Cesar say many times that that isn't fair or comfortable for dogs, that he and his family are Alpha, and all of the dogs are equal.  I can't figure this one out at all.  On the one side, I want to help establish pack order with them being equal, on the other hand, I wonder if Badger should be alpha over her...? It's very confusing to me. 

Yea it kind of confuses me too.  I am looking at it like a person, not a dog of course.  Tsu has been here longer, thus she should be alpha over Boudreaux.  But Caesar says that most dogs are happier when they don't have the job of alpha. 

Tsu just gets pi55ed when Boudreaux gets near her when she is eating or won't stay out of her face so I am not sure that is a real alpha problem, but more of a "back off little brother" issue.  He just needs to learn his manners.