Why is Grace so vicious? - Update

[lins_saving_grace]

We get all the way home from our walk tonight without incident.  Grace is learning to ignore other dogs along the way and we sit and stay while people walk by. 
we crossed the street to go home and this older gentleman is coming at us.  Prepared i tell her to sit, i stradle her with my knees at her neck, tell her to mind her manners and the guy says something to us.  Grace went off.  He didn't stop moving toward us or talking.  So no matter how hard i held onto her leash, she pulled and we both went after the guy.  she was growling like she wanted to bite him.  in fact she got drool on his hand and pants.  I held on for dear life, so hard i have blood on my right hand from her clip digging into my finger.  I'm not sure what stopped us. 
I dragged her home and heard this little family of kids and dog asking the guy if he was ok.  Geez!
What am i going to do about her?  this is the only problem she's still having being around new people. 

[schelmischekitty]

what are you using, just a collar?  maybe you could look into one of the anti pull harnesses (i LOVE the original sporn halter we have that puts pressure on the arm pits and has fleece to protect them from rubbing).  that or maybe try classes so you have a trainer that can see and give you hints on how to deal with it?  also saw on TV that they used compressed air and sprayed it towards (but no in their face or on them since it can get super cold) to make them stop, maybe you could get a bottle of it and try that.  it worked wonders with the dog they used it on.  if you like collars, i know with us we can use chokers and put it high up on the neck and just keep a pretty tight leash.  they can't really pull like that and you have a LOT better control over them.  also, when you stand over her shoulders, do you think you might be making her anxious?  i know our dogs if we act anxious they get super aggressive, but if we take good precautions and then act calm they do TONS better.

[lins_saving_grace]

i have a halti but she wiggles her head out of it.  I tie her leash around her waist too but tonight i had taken it off on the part of our walk where she bahaves and rarely sees people anyway.  i will have to wrap it around her again at the entrance of the complex.  it goes around her waist and pulls her under the ribs when she jerks.

[schelmischekitty]

personally, i would look into other ways of walking her.  maybe even change up every so often so she doesn't get "immune" to how what you're using works.  here's a link to the sporn harness, but i put tons of other thoughts in my other post (not sure if you saw them b/c i kept updated it ha ha)

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8322991

[schelmischekitty]

i have a halti but she wiggles her head out of it.

wanted to put also that axle wiggles out of them too, but we got a goat halter and it fits snugger (shorter distance between the neck and snout) for shorter snouts!  we did end up getting a small collar to "extend" it though b/c he has a big neck.  with the goat halter, it doesn't have any slack, either, so it doesn't loosen and tighten, it stays a constant good fit.

[lins_saving_grace]

is the halti you got her too big? maybe a smaller size would work better

the halti is supposedly her size.  i may go get a gentle leader.

[Icerotti]

Puck can slip out of his halti.... I never tried a gentle leader on him but it may work better b/c you can tighten it snout wise. Puck has a very short muzzle If I go where there will be other dogs with him b/c that is his issue I muzzle him.  It is not what I want to do but have to do to protect the other dogs who may run up to him and protect us against any nasty situations that could occur. I don't know what happened in his past but he really hates other dogs that run up to him.

The goat halter sounds like it may work for a shorter snout. I use the chest halti with Rosie --It may be worth trying.

I have been on the other end of a rotti pulling a leash and they are STRONG...lol

What will she do if you just keep walking? I use to stop with Puck but I found that it made things worse. He had time to sit there and think about this what he was going to when this other dog was coming towards us. He could feel how tense I got when I did this. I found that I put myself to the opposite side of the dog coming towards us so that Puck is furthest away from the dog. I keep saying things like heal, lets keep walking. He is concentrating on what we are doing and not so much on the other dog. He is down to a snort or two when we pass and a slight head turn now. When I remember I use a treat to get his attentionoff the other dog until it passes and if he is good he gets the treat. If he grumbles or pulls...no treat.

Good luck Lins

[lins_saving_grace]

i'm going to have to do something to restrain her ... i can't have people afraid to walk by her.  i've tried just keep walking and we just turn around and go back ... i've done the sit and stay and mind your manners.  the only thing that really works is the pulling of her leash around her sensitive part of the tummy.  choakers don't discourage her at all either.  she has one on her leash and it only slows her down. 
i may be used to the rottie pull and strong enough to handle a mild one.  but when she makes up her mind ... she pulls me like i was on ice.

[Icerotti]

 Puck does not acknowledge a choke chain at all  The prong is not bad on him but not the best. I know there are mixed opinions on an electric collar but I did end up having to train with a trainer to help with his reaction to other dogs. It was really working well but then I got preggers and couldn't do the pulling  and  handling 

[lins_saving_grace]

if worse comes to worse i'll get a shock collar. she did well with that on the invisible fence.  but i bet i could stand to train myself a little too.  we've both let our manners go since we got our on place.  she's gotten spoiled and knows she's top doggie now without lady.  and i've let her spoil me by having her all to myself.
the prong collar helped neither Grace nor Lady.   her choaker works when it's just me and her and maybe one other person.
off to the farm and fleet store i suppose.  i've been disappointed in the halti.  It worked wonders on Lady.  but Grace...not so much.  she was a lot more submissive with Lady around to do all the intimidating.  now it's just her...she seems to think she needs to pull double duty.

[Gemz]

please try a gentle leader or even a canni collar before you get a shock collar. I really dont like them, I know a dog that died of a heart attack on one.

There's other sorts of collars like ones that spray water by remote. Just really reinforce good behaviour, and maybe even think about walking her with a muzzle. that really helped my boy when he was going through a similar thing.

people see a dog with a muzzle and stay away from it, which in turn helps your dog to relax around people as they tend not to make eye contact and will walk the other side of the road.

just please leave shock collar to last resort.

[lins_saving_grace]

I promise the shock collar will be the last resort.  i know it's up to me to step up to the plate again.  with everything going on last month i slacked off on the alpha dog thing and treated her like a baby.  i will get one of those goat halters today and a muzzle if i need to also. 
but the colalr will be the last resort definately. 

[lins_saving_grace]

So i took pupper for a walk this morning.  She wanted up at 5:30.  Got home.  She still hasn't eaten breakfast.  took her for another walk and ran into people.  I had her leash wrapped around her tummy, which gives me more control, and we pulled into the field by the medical center on Division.  two guys walked by with enough distance between them to get different reactions each time.  the first guy she wanted to growl at.  we were 30 feet away from him even.  i pulled her back and forced her back down with a light jerk on her leash.  the next guy walked by.  i made her sit and stay.  this time she didn't even pull.  she may have thought about it.  i kept her attention and did my best man voice.  she didn't move.  i gave her a little bone and we quietly and nicely walked home. 
she tried growling out the window this morning and i scolded her for it.
the alpha dog may be back.   

[schelmischekitty]

i'm so excited!  that's awesome news!  grace wants to make her mommy happy so bad!  i guess she was just trying to keep you safe from those nasty people ha ha  you did a great job showing her you are boss!

[Anakalia]

I'm glad she did better this morning!  I do think it makes a HUGE difference in your attitude at the time. If you're confident you can handle her then things will work out better than if you're feeling afraid or frustrated.  Good job Lin!