Author Topic: Show dog searching - have questions about getting started.  (Read 3823 times)

Offline Newly Newfed

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Show dog searching - have questions about getting started.
« on: June 07, 2008, 10:02:31 am »
Hi all.  As most of you know, I am desperately wanting another Newfoundland.  I don't want just any Newfoundland though.  I want a show dog.  I remember loving the dog show scene when I was younger and my mom was showing our Siberian Huskies.  I really want to get back into that world. 

Of course I want to get a dog with the best potential for winning and I know there are no guarantees on a puppy's show potential.  Problem is, I don't even know where to begin.  There are so many breeders out there, and I have turned to the internet as a start, but how do you know who is legit and who isn't?  Even a backyard breeder can make a website look credible.  I don't know anyone that I trust enough to accept their word of mouth recommendation s.  The only route I feel comfortable going at this point is contacting some of the breeders listed in the member directory of the Newfoundland Club I am a member of.  There are two members that have received the much recognition regarding breeding and show winnings, and one of them is the club president.  To be honest, I'm not comfortable with him.  He seems like the type that can't be bothered with you unless you are an established breeder or experienced handler.  I can understand hesitancy to sell his pups to a novice, but I don't feel he's even approachable to ask questions to learn from.

Does anyone have any suggestions or advice to get the ball rolling?  I am willing to put the time and investment into getting the best possible dog I can... this is something I really want to do.
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Offline People Whisperer

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Re: Show dog searching - have questions about getting started.
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2008, 10:25:16 am »
The good way to start is to inquire National Club for a breeders list/directory. You can also go to www.infodog.co m and see what winning dogs/bitches there are out there. You can search kennels by their names and find websites to those breeders. Once you have see the sire/dam that you like, which has title/titles you should go to www.offa.org and make sure they have all the health clearances. You probably want a breeder with a good contract and willing to help/guide you through your first show dog. You will have to learn a lot about show grooming, handling and politics ::) Good luck!
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Offline VdogLover

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Re: Show dog searching - have questions about getting started.
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2008, 11:27:05 am »
 I agree to start with your national club. Do they have a yahoo type group where you can go get the feel of people before ever contacting them?


Also do not be discouraged if you are met with some standoffish type attitude when you state you are looking for a show dog. Many breeders are very hesitant to hand over their show pick puppies to a novice/newcomer. They have learned that many find out showing is far more time consuming or expensive then they thought it would be and then their top pick pups go unfinished or unspecialed. In my breed most true show puppies are put out on co-owns in order to allow the breeder to still have some control over the pups future. Just stick in there and get past your first dog then you are no longer seen as that "novice" and far more doors will open.

Offline Newly Newfed

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Re: Show dog searching - have questions about getting started.
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2008, 03:03:00 pm »
I can understand and respect that a breeder wants to do what they can to make sure that their pups are going down the road they envisioned.  It ssems like the natural thing for someone to do if they truly care about the dogs they are breeding. 

How does the co-owning thing work?  I'm sure it depends on what you agree upon with the breeder for the details, but are there practices that are generally accepted?  Like, who foots the bills for feeding and vet care?  Or is the cost usually divided between the two owners?  Who has the final say in what happens with the dog if there is a disagreement?  Does the buyer pay full price for the dog with an agreement that they become the sole owner after a certain amount of time?  What happens if the breeder doesn't agree with the direction you are going with the dog and wants it back?  I guess these are really things to be hashed out with the breeder, but if it's a case where I am paying the full price for a puppy, I would be accepting most or all of the financial responsibility for the dog and have the responsibility for training and such, I'm not comfortable with being in a situation where someone is going to try to tell me what to do with my dog.

Maybe I'm looking at this type of arrangment all wrong.  I guess my real question is this:  Other than having access to the advice and experience of someone who knows the ropes, what are the benefits of the breeder being a co-owner?
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marypyrs

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Re: Show dog searching - have questions about getting started.
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2008, 03:53:41 pm »
A "reputable" Breeder knows his/her dogs better than none other.

I believe it's a safety net for the Pup in more ways than I can even mention. They have spent years and years in development of their particular line. There's no way they want that to be corrupted.

Do your research. KNOW your Breeder before you even think of getting a pup from them. It doesn't happen overnight. It's going to take months and most probably years to find the right one.

The truly good/great breeder will be there for you 24/7 and you will have a rapport like none other. They and you are in it for the long run. Eh?


Offline Wimble

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Re: Show dog searching - have questions about getting started.
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2008, 04:28:28 pm »
Oh I know how confusing this can be... I was there for the past 2 years.
I had 2 breeds in mind to start my showing venture with, Akitas and Tibetan mastiffs. When I had started my searching TM's were not yet recognized by the CKC only the AKC, so I decided Akitas obviously.

I had went to shows, talked to breeders and honestly did my best to sound as genuine as possible. Only to be snubbed off by EVERY one of them :S

This sadly really turned me off of the Akita breed, I wanted a pup from someone I could talk to and if I couldn't talk at a dog show (after they had been in the ring of course) and get some info from them that way, face to face... NO BS. Then how was I going to?
Alot of breeders I found personally in many breeds have the "holier than thou" attitude unfortunately. But keep it up! Eventually you will find a reputable decent breeder.
All of the Akita breeders I talked at shows, I went home and googled them. Everyone has to start somewhere right? After checking out their dogs and lines I then googled the kennel names on their foundation dogs. This is how I found the breeder I will be getting an Akita from one day, she is amazing, easy to talk to, and actually listens to YOUR situation.

Before finding her though, and while i was still in the "discouraged" stage, I had started searching harder for my TM. I found her easily and did I ever score on an amazing breeder too. I have never seen someone so dedicated to her dogs, and when we did the phone interview and I asked her a question that I was used to hearing a moment or 2 of silence n the other end for... she had the answer and a brilliant answer at that.
I was supposed to be under a co-own with Karma, but the breeder and I have hit it off so well and keep in contact like friends would, she signed over full ownership to me. I know if and when breeding Karma comes up, I would go to her breeder for guidance in a heart beat. She has been working hard with me to understand complimenting lines with stud choices and so on for a few months now (although Karma is still just a pup, its best to learn as much as you can right)
She and I both have visions of what I am going for in my TM lines and although my sights and hers are different in some ways, she respects and appreciates what I am going for.

Again, I completely understand what you are going for, and with Co-ownership, it is a great way for a newbie to showing  to prove to a breeder that you are in it 110%. However, I also have had a really bad experience recently with another dog I co owned with a friend and the dogs breeder (3 way co-own) I did it to help my friend financially get her dreams off the ground with what we were sure was a very promising little bitch, however this breeder literally blew smoke up our... well you get the picture, we are now out upwards of $3000 combined and returned the dog. Be sure you have ALL paperwork and contracts signed BEFORE paying for a pup. It turned out that our little bitch was SO promising that the breeder insisted she handled ONLY, she chose shows, she had final say for EVERYTHING. And we were to pay her for conditioning and handling, we payed a fortune for this pup and were on the co-own, with a 2 puppies back and say of stud was the breeders.
We would have only bred her twice as I firmly believe more than that is just not right by me, so basically we payed the breeder for her to have her show dog on her standards. The story is a little more involved than this, but I dont want to be typing for ever lol

Dont be intimidated by breeders, try to find out who gave them their start, search lines, study lines, check OFA site for results of lines you like, as well as CERF site, be ready with questions of your own when you find a breeder and try to have the answers YOU want (for reputation purposes)already written out, if they say something you are not comfortable with but everything else checks out, dont be afraid to ask.
Don't forget, they are interviewing you and you should be doing the same to them.
Hope some of this helps.