Tell me best and your worst training experience.

[Good Hope]

Hi everybody!

I am occassionally frustrated with Sapphire. She is very territorial (just in the house) and is having a difficult time learning to let me have control and decide who is okay and who is not permitted to pass through the front door.

So, I thought I could maybe gleem wisdom from everyone's great success and failure stories. My great success is yet to come...but I can share my greatest failure. Sapphire attacked my 95 year old grandmothers walker. Yes, and as she was walking through the front door. She broke her sit stay, grabbed the bar, and tried to wrestle it to the ground. In the meantime, my grandmother is waving at her telling her to get away. We grabbed Sapphire, but after she had settled and we had let her go, she ran back to tackle it again. She got no where, left it alone after awhile, but continued to bark at for the next two weeks, whenever my grandmother used it.

Ok, so what's your story?

Deena

[taijinrr]

i dont have a bad training story,,,,,,,,but this is kind of funny,, well , was to me.
i was getting ready to show my kuba in long island ,N.Y.
while waiting i was chatting with a great dane friend. my Kuba usually just sat and paid no mind to anyone. then!.........all of a sudden i heard what in the world??
my Kuba peed on a man standing nearby. i said, omg  i am soooooooooo sorry and   ran to the other tent where the hounds were going on shortly.  i later found out, that man was a judge!
not a hound judge, but still a judge........w hat an oooooooooops
oh
BTW
kuba won  a 4 point major that day,,,,,,,,lol.(best of winners)

[GYPSY JAZMINE]

I haven't had any negative training experiences... The closest I can come is both of Samson's puppy coarses promoted positive reinforments only & I did that & he was getting way out of control by 7 months with the challenging me & "mouthing" the kids...Finally I had to resort to more firm methods like the alpha roll which I know isn't recommended anymore but it seemed to solve our problem pretty fast...I will tell you of my friends really bad training experience...S he took her dog to a trainer that was supposed to be just great...The trainer turned out to be all about force & actually ruptured blood vessels in my friend's dogs eyes forcing her into a down by her leash at the 1st class...Of coarse my friend never went back & the trainer payed the vet bills...As far as I know the trainer is still using the same methods.

[Kiahpyr]

Kiah doesn't like to stay. We've been working on it in training class and at home. No luck. It doesn't matter if it's a sit stay or a down stay. She refuses to stay. Any advice on that? We use positive reinforcement. It was embarrassing is class.

[Good Hope]

Sapphire had problems with that at first too. Everytime she breaks, we take her back to the same spot and reissue the command. She gets a treat after 30 sec. We would release her, wait a minute and repeat the sequence. We worked with her everyday 3 or 4 times periodically through out the day for several minutes at a time. She had it within a week. LGD breeds can be tough cookies, but they are very intelligent. Once they get it...they've got it. (Except of course when a stranger enters her house....grrrr!

Best wishes...hopef ully others will be able to give you other ideas too.
Deena

[RedyreRottweilers]

Hi everybody!

I am occassionally frustrated with Sapphire. She is very territorial (just in the house) and is having a difficult time learning to let me have control and decide who is okay and who is not permitted to pass through the front door.

So, I thought I could maybe gleem wisdom from everyone's great success and failure stories. My great success is yet to come...but I can share my greatest failure. Sapphire attacked my 95 year old grandmothers walker. Yes, and as she was walking through the front door. She broke her sit stay, grabbed the bar, and tried to wrestle it to the ground. In the meantime, my grandmother is waving at her telling her to get away. We grabbed Sapphire, but after she had settled and we had let her go, she ran back to tackle it again. She got no where, left it alone after awhile, but continued to bark at for the next two weeks, whenever my grandmother used it.

Ok, so what's your story?

Deena

Deena,

Mistake #1: Expecting a puppy to hold a sit/stay in the presence of serious distraction. Lucky you, your Grandmother did not fall and get hurt during this incident.

Mistake #2: Allowing the puppy to perform the behavior again.

Here is what I would do:

I would get a walker, and keep it in my house, and use it to walk around the house with. Each time I used it, I would treat the dog.

I would NOT allow the dog to play with, mouth, paw at, or otherwise "dis" the walker, because people who use walkers are generally not steady on their feet.

I think from your photo your dog is a Kuvasz? These dogs are well known for being highly territorial, and not generally friendly with those they don't know well.

Early socialization is extremely important with these breeds.

[Willow]

I'm not going to "admit" to any "bad" training experiences.    JK...I've had too many over the years to remember most of them, but I do have one "best training experience" that I will never, ever forget!

I was instructing one of my ob classes, and in the class was a beautiful female Dobie named, "Madison".   She was one of those dogs who are almost too smart for their own good, and she was certainly pushing the limit of her owner's experience.  When the owner would try to get a straight sit at the "halt", Madison would swing around, face her and then sit.  In frustration, the owner would hand the leash to me and say, "please show me again".  Of course, Madison would do a perfect straight sit when I stopped, much to the chagrin of the owner, and amusement of the other students in the class.

One day Madison was being her "naughty" self, so after about the 3rd time of her swinging and facing her owner at the "sit", I looked at her, put my hands on my hips and said from the center of the ring..."MADISON, you know better than that!"  Without looking at me, Madison stood up, walked backwards and did a perfect straight sit on her owner's left side! 

The whole class was amazed (including myself, although I tried not to show it), and after that I could do no wrong in the eyes of all the students!   

[RedyreRottweilers]

I NEVER repeat stay commands.

If the dog does not learn to REMEMBER to stay, the command is useless.

I begin teaching the sit/stay by asking the puppy to sit in heel position. After giving a clear verbal STAY command, and showing the puppy the palm of my hand, fingers together, pointing down, I then hold enough upward pressure on the leash so that the puppy will not move, and pivot directly in front of the puppy so I'm standing toe to toe with her. Keep the gentle pressure upwards. Count to 5, pivot back, release the collar pressure, and at the same time, release and praise the puppy.

Practice in this manner until you can do this, on a loose leash, and count to 30 and the puppy is not moving. DO NOT repeat the word stay. If you have to put her back, once she IS back, you can say GOOD sit, DO NOT SAY STAY AGAIN.

You can reward good responses with gentle low key verbal praise, and food rewards.

Once you can count to 30 while standing in front of the puppy, and the puppy is consistently NOT moving when you move in front, or back to heel position, you can move out to the end of your 6 foot lead. Remember that when you start adding distance, you may end up having to position the dog back again. NO repeating stay. Say GOOD sit, instead.

When you can stand at the end of the leash and count to SIXTY without the pup moving, and when you can go back to heel position by passing around behind her, and you are not getting any movement, you can start introducing distraction.

Distraction can be defined as anything that will get your dog's attention, and cause them to break their stay.

Yep, you WANT them to break. Each time they do, put them back, and praise them for staying. You want to distract a dog into moving a couple of times, and then moderate the distraction slightly so the dog can be successful, release and praise, and then move on to something else.

Don't overdo distraction. The dog has to have the distraction to learn more about the stay concept, but you must not overwhelm her. She needs to be successful often enough so that you keep her interest.

Stay is a precision exercise that takes TIME and PRACTICE for the dog to get reliable, along with creative distractions.

[Kiahpyr]

Thanks Red! I'll be trying your directions.

[RedyreRottweilers]

Willow, some of my most dreaded moments were playing the "dog and handler" game with my instructor.

I don't know which was worse, having to be the handler, or having to be the dog.

That was when I first realized how important a steady left hand, a very short lead, and firm control at the collar is when teaching heeling, sits, and etc to dogs.

When she was playing my "dog", if I did not cue the halt/sit properly, she would show me what the dog was feeling.

It was never really fun, but I learned so much that way.

[Good Hope]

Thanks for the advice Red, we'll do it!

Laurel what a wonderful story.

Tajjinir, 

So since you all have extensive training experience, let me ask you, ideally how would socialize my Kuvasz? She's been through puppy class, goes out on 2 walks each day, to the stable when it's not too hot, and PetsMart once a week with Sofia while I grocery shop. PetsMart is the only place with classes for more than one dog, but their trainer took off and left us high and dry. Plenty of private trainers for one on one. Lots of people have been in and out to paint, work, visit, etc., somedays she's better, over all more territorial in the house. Continual improvement elsewhere.

We knew Sapphire would and will continue to require a great deal of socialization. We researched different LGD breeds off/on for almost 2 years before we purchased her. Been on severeal other boards, just keep getting told to socialize more, but never mentions how. Can't tell you how many books say the same thing.

What do you think? Just keep repeating the same. Are we doing something wrong IN the house, or do we need to do other things?

Deena

[RedyreRottweilers]

I would suggest a couple of things.

1) target train the dog. Use a rug or a mat, put the dog on it, and insist she stay there for 30 minutes. There are some exceptions to the usual rule in training this exercise. You are allowed to say "Get on your bed" or "target" each time you put her back. No other corrections are allowed. If she starts to get up, no verbal help. Just put her back. In other words, don't fall into the AH AH trap, helping her verbally each time she is about to make a mistake. If you do, she won't learn anything. If you do this each evening, and you are consistent, she should be staying the full time with few reminders by the end of a week.

Once she is doing this, you need to set her up, using one of your friends as a helper. Put a tab on the dog's collar so you can get a hold of her if necessary. when the helper knocks or rings the bell, put the dog on the target, and go answer the door. At first the visitor should be very calm and quiet and make no eye contact with the dog. If she moves from her target, put her back just as you did ni the beginning. The helper should stay for just a few minutes, and then leave.

Gradually work up to longer and more cheerful visits by your  helper. Helper can arrive carrying packages, etc. Helper can arrive and treat the dog if dog stays on the mat.

As far as allowing your dog to make the decisions about who may or may not enter your house, I never allow this, and you should take firm charge of the situation NOW. The Target Trainingi will help with this, but having the dog learn a "QUIET" command will help as well.

Next time she alerts on something and is going to bark, such as a passerby outside, go to the door or window with her and encourage her, using a key word or phrase that you will then use throughout her life to let her know to alert. I always WHISPER this to my dog, for several reasons. It conveys a sense of urgency to the dog, and if I ever really do feel there is a prowler, or I need my dog to alert, I don't want to be YELLING at her. I say "Do you SEE somebody??" or sometimes, "WHO is that"? the first one is effective because of the SSSSSS sounds in it.

Encourage her with the words for about 15 seconds, and then say, That Will Do, Quiet, in a firm tone. Take the tab on her collar, lead her away from the window, and distract her with a toy. When she is quiet, take her into the kitchen for a treat.

I train all puppies this way. This way they learn that when you come take a look at the situation, and when you say THAT WILL DO, it's time to quiet. If you are consistent, firm, and fair, she will learn quickly that when you say THAT WILL DO, you mean business, and it's time to simmer down. I use a VERY firm tone of voice when I use this phrase, and it always means STOP NOW.

If you are not handling this dog in a manner that lets her know in clear and easy to understand terms who is in charge, she could have some confusion as to who is in control.

This article can be helpful to understand how your dog thinks, and how to make sure she sees you as her trusted leader.

http://www.chowwelfare.com/cciw/alpha.htm

Good luck, and let me know if you have other questions.