Barking-Discipline?

[Binky]

Hi Everyone,

I haven't had time to look at this site in a long time!  It's good to catch up on everything! So many cute pictures!  Also, I would like some advice about Binky.

Binky is a 5 month old Pyr.  She is finally housetrained!  It was amazing- I taught her to ring a bell when she wanted to go out, and as soon as she learned that (about 4 days) she stopped having accidents!  Anyway, the problem is that she now rings the bell to go out literally every ten minutes, especially after dark.  I know she just wants to go in the yard and bark, but I don't want to deny her going out after I taught her to use the bell for that purpose.  That's the first problem.

The second is the barking.  Of course, I did my research before we got Binky and I knew she would bark.  I don't really mind the barking, but I don't want to let it go unchecked- our neighbors like all our dogs, but everyone has a limit!  I just don't know if I should be reprimanding Binky for doing something that she is bred to do (bark to deter predators).  What do you think?  Should I tell her to stop barking like I do the other dogs?  Any advice appreciated.  Thank you.

[ZooCrew]

Well, I have no experience with pyrs, but in my dealings with other breeds, including Gunther, some will bark every chance they get if left unchecked.  Even dogs that were bred to be more vocal should not be barking willy nilly.  I believe they have to be taught when it is appropriate to bark, and when it is not.

I'm sure people with pyrs will have more advice for you.  As for the ringing of the bell, good luck.  Are you really taking her out every time she rings it, even if you know she doesn't have to go out?  I would probably tone it back a bit, otherwise, you are the one being trained, not her.

[Binky]

Thanks!  I do tell her to stop barking but I just wanted to make sure it was ok.  No, I don't let her out every time she rings the bell, but since she is still a puppy,  I don't want to confuse her.  I usually watch to see if she goes to the bathroom and won't let her out for a while after she does no matter how much she rings the bell.  It's funny though, because the first time she rings the bell, she taps it gently, but the longer I ignore her, the harder and more frequently she rings the bell- what a brat

[ZooCrew]

Haha.......... ..she sounds very persistent 

[marinafb]

yoour pup is beautiful i myself have 3 dogs all 2 males and 1 female. I only have 1 barker and thats the female she does all the work for the males. I trained her that when i ask her to stop and she does'nt i shake a coffee can w/pennies in it and she will stop i learned that from the breeder. Giving them a treat when they go to the bathroom and only if they go is good to. Ringing the bell is interesting now she knows she has your attention!

[Tulsas' Dad]

Pavlovs Response in Reverse!
Whatever happens, don't Drool!
You've taught your dog how to get your attention.
Remove the bell, feed on a schedule, allow your dog to go out after an appropriate time after feeding.
Bring it back inside, even if it doesn't do its' Potty.
Observe its' behavior.
If your dog starts to circle, and can't settle down, then put it on a lead and take it outside, but only once. Don't let it off lead. Make your dog obey you, don't obey your dog.
Our Critters are a lot smarter than we give them credit for, and a lot dumber than we would like them to be.
Sometimes I trip over my dog, sometimes I Holler 'til I'm hoarse, most times all I gotta do is open the fridge door and she's right there!
Be Well,
John

[Binky]

Thanks for advice everyone!  I will try removing the bell for a day and see what happens.  As for barking, I talked to a few other people and everyone seems to agree it's ok to teach her "enough."  Thanks again!

[tanimara]

Hi, Jackie Wood here.  I wanted to put my two cents worth in about barking Pyrs. 

I do not have a died in the wool piece of advise for you but perhaps I can help you understand her better.

First of all the advise to let her know "enough" is ok, but dont over do it and dont get your expectations up to high.  First of all, she is smarter than you are and if you respond to her barking she just very well may make a game out of it to get you to come whenever she barks, kinda like the bell thing.  Also, listen to her bark closely.  Pyrs have different barks for almost every purpose.  They are very vocal dogs as you are learning.  Learn to differientiate her barks.  She will have one for wanting a drink, one for wanting outside, and a dozen others including one for the boogie man.  Try to make sure she knows the one for the boogie man or one for needing your help is ok.  It's not just a matter of making her stop barking.  Also, you need to give her some time.  She's still a puppy and wont be mature until she is 2 to 3 years old.  You will be amazed how much she will change with maturity.

Also understand that she is just announcing to the world that she is on guard.  She may be wanting to be a guardian.  She may need more time outside or at the very least an adjustment in her routine to avoid boredom.  Does she have anything to guard in the house besides you?  You might consider getting something.

You did the research, they told you up front Pyrs are barkers.  So all I can say is join the club.. the barking club...lol  Let me know if I can be of further help.

Jackie

[Binky]

Thank you for your advice Jackie.  Binky definitely has others to guard- my husband and I also have 2 Papillons and 2 cats!  I don't think she is bored as I usually work from home and have plenty of time for the animals.  We are starting obedience classes next month,  so hopefully that will give her another outlet for her energy! I know what you mean about the different barking tones- Binky hasn't developed hers yet, but McDougal, our 5 year old Papillon, has an amazing array of barks.  He is definitely a talker and I can differentiate between his "Someone is walking by" bark and his "OMG!  Someone is walking by with a DOG!" or "I have to go out" etc. 

[CalistogaPyr]

Ah, the challenge of a barking Pyr.  Wait, is there such a thing as a silent Pyr?    Bo is a guardian through & through...and the barking came with her.  We have taught her "relax" as her command to stop barking & that I have recognized her attempt to warn me & that it is no longer necessary for her to continue barking.  The other thing I used (instead of a can of rocks/pennies-which is great to get their attention) is bitter apple spray.  When she was excessively barking, I sprayed the bitter apple in her general direction (not in her eyes/nose, of course) and made a "SSHHHH" sound.  It really got her attention & after two sprays, she now responds just to the sound.  I based my method on the idea of citronella de-barking collars, which act in much the same way. 

I agree with Jackie, that Binky is very young & she is still learning who she is & how she fits into the family.  Bo changed A LOT betwee 6 months & two years, and is still changing now!  Just when I think I've got her figured out...

The Pyrs are EXCEPTIONALLY smart dogs & it seems like Binky learned quickly that you are responding well to the bell that she uses to summon you!  I think that taking the bell away & structuring her potty breaks is probably a good idea.  I heard somewhere that the general rule of thumb for bladder containment is 15 minutes for every month of their age.  I used that framework when I was potty training Bo & it seemed to work. 
GOOD LUCK!!
Jenn & Bo

[Binky]

Well, the bell is gone!  Binky is very upset about it though and keeps looking for it, glaring at me resentfully!  I hope she doesn't get revenge by peeing on the floor!
I will try the bitter apple-I should have thought of that before!  Binky is really sensitive to smells, so that might do the trick.  I had to stop using Lysol because every time I used it, she went nuts!  She'd start tearing around the house and rubbing her face on the floor.  Strange. Any other dogs that have this problem?   Thanks all for good ideas.  Will keep you posted on the barking and the bell!

[tanimara]

She is such a lovely girl..... You know what?  after I thought about it a while, she is amazingly smart.  I think this is the first time I ever heard aobut a Pyr that rings a bell to go out and potty.  If you can teach her that you can teach her anything.  If she learned that, then she is smart enough to learn anything SHE MAKES UP HER MIND to learn.  Hang in there.

Jackie

[LaurieW]

Are you clicker training her?  Karen Pryor's website (www.clickertra ining.com) has an article for shelters about creating a "no bark" zone...while not exactly your situation, the principle of click & treat for the desired behavior will help. 

Also helpful are her "Click-a-trick" cards that come with the beginning clicker kit - there is one on "Shh/Speak". 

Assuming you've already taught your dog that "click = treat = YES!! That's what I wanted you to do!!".......

.......when she barks click & treat, as she's swallowing the treat & is quiet, say "shh" & make the "shh" gesture....wai t for the barking to start again & repeat until she's learned that "shh" = click & treat.......th en start to say "Speak" & click the next bark (even if it's a little yip or whine).....follow with the "shh" & click/treat.....you are teaching her 2 different cues!  As she learns what you want, you'll be able to ask for the bark, and to get her to quiet her barking.

I've got 5 pyrs in various stages of learning this right now.....I had to modify the procedure a bit, because I'm not always close enough to them to click & treat.....so.. ..since Frosty is the worst at barking & setting off all the others (particularly Pete & Lucy), I've been concentrating on those 3.  When Frosty started barking I'd click & toss a treat at her - she'd stop barking to go & get the treat & I'd say "shh"......I did the same for Pete & Lucy.  (I keep a clicker in my pocket pretty much all the time when I'm at home - makes it easy to mark their behavior right when it's happening.) 

When it started working inside, I took it outside - I'd go out with them & watch them play (always fun to do) & when Frosty would go in to "guardian" mode & start barking, I'd click & toss a treat.....they love to get treats, and now any time the clicker goes off, they all come running to see if they'll get a treat - making it even easier to teach "shh", because now they are standing close enough to see the "shh" gesture & hear the "shh" sound I make with it & get a click & treat for being quiet. 

I haven't decided if I'm going to teach the "speak" part of this - they bark enough as it is!

It's a slow process for me - with 5 of them and my crazy work schedule that keeps me from training every day - but it IS WORKING!!!  I'm sure it would go much faster if I had more time to devote to it. 

Most of all - keep the training sessions brief & fun with lots of praise for "getting it"!

Good luck!

-lauriew

[BabsT]

Barking just goes hand in hand with LGD's LOL  Both my dogs bark but they have different barks and i know the serious ones vs. the barking to annoy me.  When they are serious they sound like Lions...Zero still has the biggest, deepest bark on any dog i have ever heard.

But when enough is enough i tell them.  Every now and then a coyotes goes by the front of my house late at night and well they go ballistic but they settle down

Misha sometimes does it to set Zero off so she can get what he has LOL

[MyDyson]

I guess I'm lucky, Dyson is not a barker.  He just sleeps, eats, and guards our little girl by walking beside her where ever she roams.

Randy