Stupid In America?????

[chaos270]

We had the CMTs (Connecticut Mastery Tests) and practice CMTs as well as the CAPT testing in high school sophmore year.  Then the SATs and ACTs and other tests.  It was ridiculous how much prep went into it but at least we learned other stuff too.

[Anky]

OK I don't really have much to say here.  Personally I think that the public education system sucks.  I don't have kids, but my mom is a teacher at a nice private school.  It isn't one of those impossible Future MENSA schools or anything.  Matt's youngest brother went there for two years.  He failed 7th grade there.  The next year Matt's mom put him in public school, in 7th grade where he belonged (Since he had failed the previous year).  Within two months they had bumped him up to 9TH GRADE and gave him accelerated classes.  Jon recently took the test to go back to the private school and he'd be in 8th grade (He's in 10th now in public school).  He NEVER has homework, he says teachers don't hand it out because they know the kids won't do it.  It scares me that my sister (In private school) is doing algebra and geometry in 3rd grade, and when I was her age (In public school) I was still having nap time, and just learning cursive!

[mjjensen]

Having been a single parent with a child in a Maine school system I know exactly what My3Dogs is going through. My daughter went through the same school system that I went through as a kid and I know first hand how the quality of education has deteriorated since I graduated. Kids these day don't have nearly as much expected of them as they did when I was in school. The kids aren't challanged so they get bored. At least that was the case with my daughter. It seems like the schools are only interested in pushing the kids through the system with the bare minimum of education. When I was young if you didn't do the level of work that was expected of you, you were held back. Today they no longer hold students back. They say it hurts their self esteem. Instead they lower the standards that  the kids are expect to meet so they can't fail. Well, that may help their self esteem but it sure doesn't prepare them for the real world. I'm not sure about other school systems but our high school has almost 15% fewer graduates that go on to college than they did 30 years ago. That just doesn't seem right. Sorry about the venting. This subject is a bit of a pet peeve of mine

[Maggie's Mom]

    I'm from a small town in Connecticut that has the best school system in the area.  We don't have a high school so I went to a semiprivate high school that is one of the top in the nation.....we have our own museum that's filled with one set of two plaster sets of the Greek originals currently in the UK.  So yeah our school had money, but some of the kids had learned nothing from grade school.  I was in all the advanced classes which were challenging on occasion because they were college courses. 
   But going to college and seeing how bad other students are is eyeopening.  I mean I had choice of any college because of my grades and such but chose the state university due to the expensiveness of the other schools. So I see so many kids work themselves to death and can't do well because they weren't prepared properly.
    I agree to the fact you are taught how to test well in most schools and when some hit colllege where you have to think they fail miserably and that's talking about in New England where the school systems are very good.  I've heard horror stories about schools in the South.

I can speak first-hand to what you've said about kids being un-prepared for college.  All through high school I took all honors classes and did fairly well (for never studying one time all through school).  Yes, now I know that that was really stupid, especially since when I got to college I had a very rude awakening.  I found that I didn't know HOW to study!  I know that sounds retarded, but I never had to do it before b/c the classes (yes, even all the honors classes) were too easy, and I coasted through them.  It's very sad that I wasn't challenged, they just don't seem to care.  It's really very upsetting.

[ZooCrew]

This is a very interesting topic.  I, myself don't have children, but my husband has 4 daughters that live in WI.  I can't say much about their school system, but his daughters seem to be doing pretty well there.  One graduates this year, and another next year who's already started taking college courses.  The third one has some trouble, but I personally think she may have a learning disability.  The youngest also does really well in school.  Not that this says anything about the school system.

I went to private school 1st thru 8th grade.  At the time, it was free tuition if you were a member of the church.  They now do have paid tuition, but it's not nearly as expensive as what some of you have mentioned.  I do believe that private schools have a  much tougher curriculum than public schools, and the children get more one on one time b/c the class size is so much smaller.  One downside, at least at my school b/c it was so small (graduating class of 10), is that they don't have as many extra-curricular activities as public schools.  We had one basketball team, girls grad 6-8, they got band when I was in 7th grade.  You were required to be in choir.  No drama class, you were required to be in the one yearly play put on.  No other sports.  For me, this was a real bummer.

When I started public high school, I tested above average, as did most people that came from my private school.  But high school was not a breeze, nor did they pass people who didn't deserve it.  Advanced placement classes were commonplace, and most people took at least one.  SD may have students get on the Tonight Show every year b/c of small graduating classes (1-2 in some places), and may have one of the lowest paying teacher salaries in the country, but they also have one of the better academic programs in my mind.  At least from what I've seen from the rest of the country.  Teachers always had time for you, and you were encouraged to participate.

[Perdi's Mom]

Teamshredit: Homeschooling provides many opportunities for socialization.  They are in many activities with kids of all ages, we attend many church activities and functions, they also learn to speak to people of all ages as we go about our daily lives running errands, visiting nursing homes, going to play groups and other special interest groups for them, etc.   I for one don't want my kids socializing with half the kids going to mainstream schools.  Kids are rutheless now a days.  They are bullies, they are violent, they are crude.  Besides, teachers say all the time to students: "sit down and be quietm, we're not here to socialize"...I know this as I used to work in a school.  Kids arent' even allowed to talk at lunch anymore.  Recesses are being taken out of schools more and more so of course we end up with out of shape children who then the school decides to start 'grading' their weight and fat measurements to send home to parents so that the parents can make adjustments... .that was just announced last year in some southern state I believe.   It's rediculous. 

I for one will continue to make the sacrifices neccessary for my kids so that I can continue to homeschool them.  I go without a lot of things, we live in a tiny house, we don't have new cars or such, we don't have cable, we don't go out all the time, but we don't lack a good homelife and my kids know they are well loved and cared for every day.  I don't have to worry about something happening to them at school everyday...
   

I don't have any children so I have no first-hand opinion on the topic. San Diego schools aren't that great, and if we did start a family I have no clue what we would do about schooling them. I attended Catholic schools all my life(in Ohio) and don't know anything about public school environments. Paying a mortgage AND a tuition where we live isn't reality for us right now. Home schooling seems to be a common alternative around here, especially with the long waiting lists at private schools.
Just curious, how does home schooling affect children's ability to socialize and work in larger groups? Going back to my memory of childhood, both my home and classroom environments had a major impact on the way I developed mentally and socially, but each in its own way. I know I'm getting a little off topic, but if Chip and I have kids it's going to be an issue we'll have to discuss.
When did a good education become a luxury? And so complicated?

[Anky]

   

I don't have any children so I have no first-hand opinion on the topic. San Diego schools aren't that great, and if we did start a family I have no clue what we would do about schooling them. I attended Catholic schools all my life(in Ohio) and don't know anything about public school environments. Paying a mortgage AND a tuition where we live isn't reality for us right now. Home schooling seems to be a common alternative around here, especially with the long waiting lists at private schools.
Just curious, how does home schooling affect children's ability to socialize and work in larger groups? Going back to my memory of childhood, both my home and classroom environments had a major impact on the way I developed mentally and socially, but each in its own way. I know I'm getting a little off topic, but if Chip and I have kids it's going to be an issue we'll have to discuss.
When did a good education become a luxury? And so complicated?

There's been a few threads about homeschooling here.

http://www.bigpawsonly.com/index.php/topic,5795.0.html

http://www.bigpawsonly.com/index.php/topic,2996.0.html

I'm sure there's more but I just woke up (Matt was the ONLY one at work who bet against the Patriots in his pool at work and he won scads of money, so we were up really late.)  I think IF you choose to homeschool, you MUST supplement with social activities.  I was socially retarded and didn't know how to talk to or deal with people when I went back to highschool.  It was really hard for me.  I think if we had done music classes, or art classes or local sports, it would have been different.  I know alot of private schools have supplement programs for homeschoolers (The school my mom teaches at does), where you get all the arts, and gym and sports and special events for a small fee per year.   If I were ever to homeschool, that'd be the route I'd take.

[Good Hope]

I agree with Ang, there does need to be some outside social activities. And the amount depends upon the child's personality. Those who have difficulty in interacting with others need almost a daily activity. While an outgoing child who seeks out others in the neighborhood, and only NEEDS a weekly, but may enjoy more. Sports, dance, and church choirs are great things to get a shy child to interact more, provided the parent stays and watches in order to encourage interaction and provide the necessary reinforcement as he/she builds his/her self confidence.

Like I said, the more government and/or administrative involvement, the greater the $ cost and the less teaching that gets done. Get the feds out, downsize the adminisatratio n, and parents in numbers, beginning demanding the schools teach again... well, then you're back on the right track. However, parents are going to have to decide to be parents, and not leave the moral instruction to the teachers and children's peers in order for schools to truly be effective.

Deena

[ZooCrew]

I agree with Ang and Deena.  Outside socialization is key if you are going to do home schooling, or even if the kids are at a private school w/o many options for that.

I too, had a hard time thru most of high school b/c I was extremely shy, and still am (until you get to know me, that is, then I won't shut up).  I didn't join any of the groups I wanted to b/c I didn't know anyone in them.  My dad was pissed when I didn't try out for basketball (I was a pretty darn good player back then), and I really wish I had, but at the time school had just started and I knew not a single other person in my grade.  I had taken classes in the past, but they were always one on one classes (piano and riding lessons), and not group classes.  I really wish I had been more involved in things than I had been, but I can do nothing about it now.

Of course, you can also overstimulate children, which I don't think is good either, it stretches them too thin.  Like my stepkids.  I think their mom has them involved in too many activities just so they're out of her hair.  All are in bowling, three are in band.  Two are in track, one in basketball, two in softball, two in soccer  One, like I said was taking college courses.  Two are cheerleaders.  Those are just the activites I can think of off the top of my head.  That's not including any after school clubs.  The older two also have jobs.   I guess it's not affecting their schoolwork at all, but it seem like alot to have on their plate.

[newflvr]

I guess it's not affecting their schoolwork at all, but it seem like alot to have on their plate.


I think so too....what happens to their childhood?  One of my kids teachers told me when he was in the first grade and I was being a psycho parent and had asked her what he should do over the summer "Clouds.....let him watch clouds.  When else, in his life, will he have time to watch clouds?"  She was right.  I ended up letting my kids have lots of time to play outside--unstructured!  No rules!! (except don't kill each other  ) and it was amazing what they came up with.  I truly think that's why they are all creative (and you should have heard the creative excuses when they were teenagers! )  They did a few structured activities when THEY chose to in high school.  They've all gone to good colleges and are all pretty happy in their lives.  Isn't that the point?

[Good Hope]

Just want to clarify here. When we are talking about a group music, dance, art or sport, we are talking about one of their classes being with a group of others instead of something extra. Sports replaces PE, so free time exits during another part of the day.

Yes, many parents drop there children off at activities so that they do not have to parent.  They spend their time running errands, shopping, hair, massage, etc. Others are allowing the children to do not only the things the kids want to do, but dump all those activities the parents had wanted to do as children and missed out on. Know many parents like that. Lots of children spend very little time with a parent running from one thing to another, how the heck are the parents going to have time to teach them anything regarding right from wrong... oh forgot, that must be the school's responsibility . Pretty sad, I guess I'm old fashioned. How are children going to develop a work ethic, develop drive, learn the joys and pains of sacrifice if everything is too easy? It happens with homeschool moms just as with moms who send their children to school. So my pet pieve is not just about Public and some private schools gone wrong, but selfish parents as well.

Sorry to rant.

Deena

[Anky]

Personally, I think...... well I don't know what I think.  I know I want my kids to be involved in at least one sport, because I didn't get to be, and as a result I'm a big ol' lazy bum with no coordnation or grace whatsoever.  I want them to choose at least one instrument (And yes they'll get to choose.  Matt's a drummer so the whole worst nightmare of a kid banging on a drum is something I have to live with anyways.) and have lessons until highschool. 

Sometimes the parents dropping the kids off is because they don't want to deal with them.  I think in other cases, it's because the parent is living vicariously through the child.  They didn't have the ability and the kid does, or they didn't have the money and now they want to give their child every opportunity to make them the most well rounded individual possible.  Or their kid doesn't know what they want to do so the parent has them do everything!  In a world where, through invention, we have no moments of silence or peace unless we pay out the hoo hah for it, even the children are pushed to multi task.  Doing research on papers through their Sidekicks on the way to their soccer game, doing book on tape for a report, while trying to coordinate a school function that they're the chair of.  Up here at least EVERYONE moves at break neck pace.  I forget who I was talking to, but they said something like "You're talking, driving and eating all at the same time?!?!?!"  Ummmm yeah?  Up here we have quite a few restaraunts that started out normal, and for lack of interest, closed their dining rooms, made an extra drive through and leased out their parking lots.  No one sits to eat here.  Unless it's a fancy place, in which case they have high speed internet ports. 

Because NO job field is safe, I know many people who have triple majors just to cover their bases, then go to trade school at nights for something to fall back on.  (Just because I didn't go to college doesn't mean I don't know college people.)  It used to be that people get a job at a place, work their forever, and retire.  If the place isn't shut down or merged now, you still get shafted because they want to go in a different direction, or they're phasing out your position in order to use cheaper help over seas. 

Oh this posts was about homeschooling.  My bad   

[Perdi's Mom]

Deena I'm with you....I'm tired of parents not Parenting!  They expect the schools to do it, the clergy man at church to do it, the counselor to do it, the coaches to do it, instead of the parents actually doing it.  I homeschooled for about a Zillion reasons....I want to make sure my kids are parented by me!  I know it sometimes can take a village to raise a child, but parents need to stop thinking that they aren't a part of that village! 

[GR8DAME]

This one will be short, I promise. Both of my kids are involved in club hockey. My son has been heavily involved (as much as 5 days a week with some ice time, games or practices) since he was 4, my daughter is happy with 3 nights a week. They are not dropped off and forgotten. Every practice, and game has been attended fully by either Dale or myself or both of us. They have manners, standards, excellent work ethics and morals, instilled by parenting, not schools, or peers. The other things that they have had are the opportunity to travel, learned to get along with people of other backgrounds and beliefs, a team, not "I" mentality, organizational skills, lasting freindships, respect for others and a respect for authority, whether it be coaches or just adults in general. These are things that can be taught, but to be understood they need to be lived. They are not on drugs, have never had any issues with the police, and you can dress them up and take them anywhere. At this point, if you asked my son, who is ineligiable to play next year because of his age, I know he would tell you that he is devistated. He has already been in contact with some of his buddies from other teams that are in the same boat about getting a group together for rat hockey, just to stay on the ice. Sorry, I don't see a downside here.
Stella

[sgoehner]

I grew up about 30 minutes west of Milwaukee WI and went to one of the best, if not the best High Schools in the state.  Every year we would have people go to MIT or the like.  I was not one of those kids, but I was right just above the middle in a class of 430.  I did well on all of my standardized test because frankly I thought they were easy.  Anyways, I when I went to college I to looked around at some of the people there and wondered 1) How did they graduate High School, 2) how did they get into college.  I mean things that I learned when I was a Freshman in High School where I went were just being taught to some of the kids for the first time.  I now live about 35 minutes NW of Chicago and I know for a fact that when I have kids, I just got engaged 2 weeks ago, I will be planning on moving back just so that they can attend the same school as I did.